Paul Bertholy

Re: Paul Bertholy

Postby Bammer » Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:10 pm

nfbandon,

Bertholy wanted to see as bent of a right elbow and wrist past impact as possible. He came up with specific drills that put a huge emphasis on these 2 ideals. He also believed that muscles in the left shoulder/upper back created a pulling effect that stabilized the release. He would have students do 100 bent over deltoid raises a day to develop these muscles. Moe Norman, who visited Paul twice a year, worked himself up to 1000 lifts a day. If you watch a video of Jordan Spieth from face on, you can see this left shoulder pulling action very clearly.

After reading about this left shoulder pulling move, I tried to find players who do it well. From a down the line perspective, the best example I could find was Ben Hogan. On nearly every swing, his left elbow "reappears" from around his torso before any part of the club reappears. Jordan Spieth is terrific at this move, Sergio does it when he's hitting the irons well. There have only been a couple days where I have caught video of myself with this early left elbow "reappearance". They were days where I was absolutely flushing it.

Do you feel this pull with the left deltoid/trapezius in your swing? Do you think it's entirely the result of good sequence prior or do these muscles truly "fire" much better in swings like Hogan and Spieth?
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Re: Paul Bertholy

Postby Bammer » Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:11 pm

nfbandon,

Bertholy wanted to see as bent of a right elbow and wrist past impact as possible. He came up with specific drills that put a huge emphasis on these 2 ideals. He also believed that muscles in the left shoulder/upper back created a pulling effect that stabilized the release. He would have students do 100 bent over deltoid raises a day to develop these muscles. Moe Norman, who visited Paul twice a year, worked himself up to 1000 lifts a day. If you watch a video of Jordan Spieth from face on, you can see this left shoulder pulling action very clearly.

After reading about this left shoulder pulling move, I tried to find players who do it well. From a down the line perspective, the best example I could find was Ben Hogan. On nearly every swing, his left elbow "reappears" from around his torso before any part of the club reappears. Jordan Spieth is terrific at this move, Sergio does it when he's hitting the irons well. There have only been a couple days where I have caught video of myself with this early left elbow "reappearance". They were days where I was absolutely flushing it.

Do you feel this pull with the left deltoid/trapezius in your swing? Do you think it's entirely the result of good sequence prior or do these muscles truly "fire" much better in swings like Hogan and Spieth?
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Re: Paul Bertholy

Postby nfbandon » Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:04 pm

I have read John talk about getting the left shoulder as far from the ball as possible, but when I focus on it I inevitablly do it too soon. I think learning how to do this would be a significant elevation of my swing because I can see my right side crash into my left post impact. Thanks for the insight.
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Re: Paul Bertholy

Postby Range Rat » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:37 am

This is my first post here and I believe this site to have some of the best minds in golf today!


Well thank you Bammer, and welcome to Advanced Ball Striking. Yes, it's true this site has more than its fair share of the best minds around. In case you haven't noticed yours truly sits atop the food chain here, so if you have any questions just fire away. If my time runs short I will have my understudy- Lag- carry the torch in my absence. ;)
You're ahead of where you were, and behind where you're going.
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Re: Paul Bertholy

Postby t.r. sloan » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:39 am

The left shoulder pulling action you're describing sounds like what Paul and Doug call the Horizontal Tug. It's what Ben Hogan and Moe Norman used to facilitate their post-impact down-the-line move. Moe talks about it in a lot of the videos I've seen on YouTube.
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Re: Paul Bertholy

Postby Wojo1941 » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:21 am

I used Bertholy Method when I was younger, in my late 30's, I own the book and his swing pipe. Played my best golf then I carried a 6 handicap, won a few local tourneys. Now in my early 70's and can't use the system anymore, need to be flexible to get high hands at the top, then pull down to set the lag, before reversing swing. I do see a lot of similarities with Lag's Abs system, however the rolling hands on backswing enables me to take a full swing with lower plane more around the waist feelings. Wish I was young enough to still use the Bertholy method, I was much longer especially with long irons using Bertholy.
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Re: Paul Bertholy

Postby t.r. sloan » Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:59 am

Hi. I would like to know more about what you find too difficult about using the Bertholy Method now that you are older? Thank you, James.
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Re: Paul Bertholy

Postby Wojo1941 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:08 pm

I used Bertholy's Method when I was in my late 30s up till I was fifty! Best golf I ever played, handicap was 5-6 in those years.

Bertholy talked to me on the phone when I called him in Fox Fire, NC. I purchased his book, and have a video tape of his method, I had the VHS tape transferred to DVD which I still watch in the winter before going to the indoor dome and hit balls. I live in Michigan, I am now in my early forties, I still play 4 times per week, but don"t use the Method any more.

Basically the Method encompassed a lot of static drills to develop the ONE he used as key thoughts for the downswing. The keystone (triangle) was the left arm,shaft and right arm at 9:00 backswing, then he wanted you to "crank" it up to at High Hands position, followed on downswing with "ONE" (a count of one) while you pulled the horizontal shaft down towards back neck,(fall in move) then the "Neee" was to make you buckle your knee to the target, before you sat down on you back leg.

Very much a "swingers" method with retention of the triangle until the last second, then roll our Supinate your left hand.

Bertholy's method was fabulous when your flexible, my longest driving was using this method, my golf buddies of 40+ years always "wonder" why I gave up Bertholy.
Back in the day on a 495 par five I would hit a Ping #1 iron from about 200 yards into our # 10 green. Not no more!

You can find "breathless" whole method in Golf Magazine, March 1975. Google it of contact libraries for copy. I have one which shows his 5 drills to build swing.
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