Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Re: Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Postby lagpressure » Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:27 pm

Here is the article in PDF

http://advancedballstriking.com/p.pdf
http://advancedballstriking.com/p1.pdf
http://advancedballstriking.com/p2.pdf
http://advancedballstriking.com/p3.pdf

They mixed up the shaft flex pics on the opening page which I fixed, and I took out the advertisement for some metal frying pan which I would not endorse. It's painful enough for me to see the model using a frying pan, believe me.. Al and I submitted some nice swings of me out at Mare which they chose not to use, much to my disappointment! :evil:
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Re: Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Postby NRG » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:59 am

Amongst the students here only Robbo and Cheese Donkey have reached something close


Thats quite funny Macs, cause to the best of my knlowledge you have only seen 4 Module 7 students swings here (including your own), so 2 out of 4 isn't bad.
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Re: Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Postby macs » Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:37 am

NRG
True! but I can only comment on something I have seen.
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Re: Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Postby lagpressure » Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:57 pm

There are actually 20 students on module 7 right now.. but a lot of them are not active on the forum. I wish they would be of course, but I don't require it to participate. I am sure most of them do read here, and I am sure that the interaction that does take place here is beneficial and appreciated.
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Re: Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Postby Prot » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:28 am

I have been messaging this topic in my brain for quite a while. It took a while to find my brain, but when I did... this article stuck on me because it taunts the devil's advocate within me and it's something I have toyed with for a while... in fact maybe many of us here have done so.

One of the wonderful things I've concentrated on is: What truly makes someone better suited for SWINGING vs. HITTING?
The obvious things come to mind. The things we've all heard before. How are you built? Are you a man of rhythm ? etc.etc.

I must have read Lag's article 10 times. I enjoyed it and found it wonderfully worded and kind of smiled to myself at how impartial it was when I know what Lag prefers. But this set me on looking at much broader materials for answers.

One thing I do find funny is that many people we, or experts classify as one or the other have no idea they are being classified as such and probably have all sorts of elements that fall outside the descriptions set forth by people like Homer. In fact most pro's exhibit signs of both hitting and swinging to some varying degrees and yet here they are, mixing water with oil, and doing great with it.

It makes me wonder if we (generally speaking) put too much merit in this categorizing and analyzing. I mean if the pro's don't give a crap if there hinge style suites their drive pattern.... is it really worth looking at?

I had a guy the other day (who is knowledgeable in things TGM related) tell me I am swinging. I asked him why he thought that. He gave me a VERY solid, and backed up list of things that I could not deny. And then I asked him, "How do you know my intentions?" He didn't have an answer for that. We discussed this for a while and he kind of ended up repeating the 'signs' I gave of a swinger. He said he'd call it about a 70 percent to 30 percent ration of swinging to hitting.

I then realized I how deceptive all this crap is. I mean I am NOT even arguing what the guy is visually reporting to me. I'm just realizing that to a large degree it is B.S. Not what he is saying... but what it means. He can tell me for instance that my swing is too long back to support a hitters right arm, but he doesn't know I'm dead weighting the club down to my belt line and I push so hard with my right arm my shoulder socket is on fire after about 10 drives in a row... Nope, he can't "see" that burning in my right arm. That was just one example of what I meant about what someone might see, vs what my actual INTENTIONS are.

I kept kind of probing for answers, for my own answers. Am I better suited for swinging or hitting? Are there things that I should be subscribing to that perhaps I overlook because they are in the WRONG 'category'? (IE: Don't pull the club in anyway or I might wake up a swinger. Keep that type of action up and I'll be wife swapping in no time.)

So in between my researches, and reading, I would revisit Lag's article. I don't want to drag this out with my own experiments, and failures in the last month or so, but I have to be honest the more -deeply- I dive into this stuff, the more I think I question it's validity. I go back to the tour pro that doesn't know hitting from swinging. I could point to a ton of pro's that show us signs of conflict. That do one thing, but say the other. And I am really questioning the value in pursuing a mechanic that feels awkward and produces poor results BUT it suits a category I fall into and therefore should adopt.

On the other hand I know of certain feels. And these feels usually mean "good" or "bad". They don't mean swing or hit, but they're more result oriented. So I have to really wonder if it's worth even asking the question: Swinging or hitting?

I realized I'm posting this to a largely TGM stoked crowd. So be gentle. 8-)
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Re: Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Postby Lefthook » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:03 pm

Thanks for putting up the article, Lagpressure.

Finally I could read it too. I was surprised to find so many familiarities between TGM hitting and ABS hitting in the article. The body type discussion, the faster moving hands because of angled hinging to mention a couple. There must still be a lot of TGM in you, Lag :mrgreen:

Prot,

There are some swingers who are so clear cut that you can see that they are swingers and there are hitters who are definitely hitters. But a lot of golfers are inbetween those and it is hard to tell which they are doing. Those who are most difficult to spot are those who have a swinger's pivot but still fire their hands through impact. It is very hard to tell the difference when Lynn Blake, aka Yoda swings and hits the ball.
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Re: Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Postby lagpressure » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:25 pm

hit_swing copy.jpg
hit_swing copy.jpg (219.45 KiB) Viewed 6219 times


This is the telling x- ray

you need a high speed camera for absolute confirmation. Otherwise, it's just "elephant talk"

Hitting on left Swinging on right
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Re: Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Postby Prot » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:43 am

Man that is a blast from the past. How old is that picture? That takes me right back to iSeek days. Debating, and trying to understand the heart of these things.

I played with swinging solidly for 2 weeks. I am now done. It's not for me; I know that now, BUT I actually believe the experience helped me defined hitting better! I have to say, even my backswing 'feels' differently and certainly the first part of the downswing. (very different...between hitting and swinging).

To this day I remember that first day in the middle of damn brutal winter on a totally empty range full of snow and frost everywhere... and I started using my right arm for the first time in the swing.

Thanks for the pics Lag.
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Re: Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Postby CheeseDonkey » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:03 am

Prot wrote:To this day I remember that first day in the middle of damn brutal winter on a totally empty range full of snow and frost everywhere... and I started using my right arm for the first time in the swing.


In a frozen kind of way (and I don't mean just temperature-wise)?
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Re: Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Postby Range Rat » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:04 am

Prot wrote:BUT I actually believe the experience helped me defined hitting better!


I think more insightful words would be hard to find. If we know where the dark is, it is easy to see where the light is!

I too remember first finding ISEEK last year and Lag's insights embedded within them. What an eye opener for me to finally hear someone who knew how the best of the best approched things. Prior to finding ISEEK and then Lag, I thought I knew what the best of the best were doing for the most part, but I was wrong in some areas....some of them critical.

But knowing how to execute motion using either a TGM hit or swing is profoundly beneficial in being able to understand the differences between TGM and ABS.

What continues to bother me however is something I still don't fully understand. Why can't the "experts" in TGM on ISEEK or LBG see that saving R arm is paramount to precision and not subject to timing in contrast to their swinging manifesto which endorses: "let's create this FLW component via intention and nirvana will be on your doorstep." I just don't get how they fail to see this. They must not like their lunch money :lol: RR
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