Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Re: Can a swinger become a hitter?

Postby Skinnybuddah » Tue May 17, 2011 5:28 am

Hi there - I'm pretty new to the forum, and am pretty keen to become a student of Lags (I'm just waiting on him to come back to me!)

I've read this article, and pretty much fit into the category of swinger, eg, tall with a smooth, unhurried flowing action.
I want to strike and compress better, I have a personal feeling that hitting would be the way for me to achieve this, I know that I can learn, but my question is as above.

Is it possible to change from swinger to hitter, ( I relate to swingers under pressure!).

As I said I'm pretty new, so don't shoot me down here, but is ABS and its modular approach more geared towards hitters, or can swingers still become better players by practicing its methodology?

Thanks in advance guys.
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Re: Can a swinger become a hitter?

Postby CaptainChaos » Tue May 17, 2011 7:34 am

Skinnybuddah wrote:...
Is it possible to change from swinger to hitter, ( I relate to swingers under pressure!).

As I said I'm pretty new, so don't shoot me down here, but is ABS and its modular approach more geared towards hitters, or can swingers still become better players by practicing its methodology?

Thanks in advance guys.


Swingers to hitters....you just described 98% of the golfers here and what we are working to accomplish. There are aspects of ABS that would benefit swingers (module 2 comes to mind immediately)...however, after weighing the pros and cons - I don't think you'll want to swing.

Welcome Skinnybuddah!

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Re: Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Postby Skinnybuddah » Tue May 17, 2011 8:40 am

Thanks for the speedy response Captn.

Aye, I'm very much looking forward to getting onto the Module work - I'm waiting on John coming back to me about it. I assume he's very busy and only takes on a certain amount of students, so I'm waiting!.

However any info on the modules or point to practice while I wait will be more than welcome!

I spent a lot of my youth trying to build a stylish swing and just got frustrated when Ididn't kick on, but I realise now that stylish doesn't mean effective, and in terms of maintenance as I get older I think that hitting my prove a more effecive way of playing.

Also good to know that I'm trying to make a similar shift to the majority of the people here.
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Re: Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Postby jake66 » Fri May 20, 2011 9:59 am

The more I read about hitting vs swinging the less the distinctions make sense. According to Homer (who started all this) a swinger employs a Rope Handle Technique while a hitter uses Axe Handle Technique. It would appear that swingers thus are restricted to a Snap Release and Hitters to a Sweep Release. So far so good. This suggests that swingers pull the club and hitters push it with the right arm, but suppose a player uses a pivot driven swing with passive hands and fires his right leg. Is he swinging (because the club is pulled) or hitting (because firing the right leg activates the right arm)? Fifty odd years of play and study have convinced me that a golfer can swing effectively in more ways than even Homer could catalog. But this swinging vs hitting stuff strikes me as a blind alley. Am I alone in thinking this?
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Re: Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Postby TeddyIrons » Fri May 20, 2011 10:28 am

Jake, forget about Homer's hitting versus swinging distinction and view the threads on this site about Lag's distinction between hitting and swinging. They are different, or rather, the swinging part is the same, but the hitting is not. Hitting in ABS = pivot driven with use of forearm rotation to square up the clubface from a deep 4:30 line and a strong post-impact pivot to prevent the clubface from turning over too much. The right arm resists the outward force, rather than being straightened intentionally as in Homer's hitting. When viewed this way, there is a huge difference between hitting and swinging!
You must work very hard to become a natural golfer ~~ Gary Player
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Re: Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Postby robbo » Fri May 20, 2011 7:33 pm

What does "firing the right leg" mean? I've never heard that term or it's association with the right arm.
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Re: Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Postby lagpressure » Fri May 20, 2011 8:39 pm

Jake,

You are correct, there are more ways to do this than Homer suggested in TGM. He got the swinging stuff right that's for sure.
His version of hitting is just bad news bears in my opinion because by actively firing the right elbow, you shut down the face intentionally, disturb lowpoint and drive the shaft out to the right and off plane through the hitting arena. I'll trust CF to square the clubface much more than any effort I might make to do it with the right elbow..

However.. what I teach and promote here at ABS is a more sophisticated and advanced way of doing all of this. Ultimately simpler, much more reliable, and very powerful also if you strengthen up a few key muscle groups. Getting stronger is easy because you just do the work and the body makes it happen. Trying to figure out timing a right arm throw at the ball, much more difficult to do day to day.
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Re: Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Postby jake66 » Sat May 21, 2011 5:30 am

Robbo,

Firing the right leg means kicking the right knee past the ball as soon as the weight has moved left in response to the backswing and response of the right leg brace. Watch any great player without exception. The first powerful move in the forward swing is a push of the right leg off the ground. The hands retain whatever angle was created by the backswing and transition. Ground reaction force created by the right leg causes the arms to drop and the right arm to straighten through the ball. The straightening right arm supinates the left hand and makes the clubhead cover the ball. All this is pretty much automatic provided the golfer trusts it and doesn't interfere. The only things a player can really control are his grip, ball position, posture, leg brace, backswing and explosion off the right leg. How well he does these things is largely a matter of athletic ability. As Bob Hope told a guy who gushed about Snead's swing: anybody can swing like that with Sam's body; I'd like to see him do that with my body!
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Re: Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Postby Range Rat » Sat May 21, 2011 10:19 am

jake66 wrote:The first powerful move in the forward swing is a push of the right leg off the ground.


I wish I had three right legs, but not to use them in that way. The first powerful move is actually just the opposite....loading down into the right leg.

jake66 wrote:Watch any great player without exception.


Maybe so....but what do the best ball strikers do? :)
You're ahead of where you were, and behind where you're going.
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Re: Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

Postby lagpressure » Sat May 21, 2011 10:52 am

If the torso is actively rotating properly at the right time, weight won't have any issues going left.
I would argue that if you pushed off the right foot at transition, you would spend your rotational range of motion too soon
and have nothing left over when you really need it.

Take a look at these weight transfer charts and ponder.

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weightshift3web.jpg
weightshift3web.jpg (716.84 KiB) Viewed 6382 times
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