The D-Plane, Trackman, NBFL, etc. thread

Re: The D-Plane, Trackman, NBFL, etc. thread

Postby Frozen Divots » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:33 am

IF they start testing what you are looking for; you might not like it. Then clubmakers will figure something out (I’m not helping them by telling what it is) and design clubs that hit the ball farther, keeping same COR. Had clubmakers pushed the boundaries of wooden clubs, they’d know what to crossover. Thankfully they jumped ship early or we’d have drivers that could hit he ball 375 yards with 115mph swing speed, etc.

I saw where the guys playing in Mexico used trackman to figure out the elevation adjustments. We will soon have an app that measures wind, air pressure, you name it and we won’t need caddies. A coach can measure each shot from given data and the app will know the rest. He will be able to run a report saying what these things do to his shot.
Player looks at coach who has his app, exact distance, wind, air pressure, exact temperature, time of day, etc and coach will signal ‘choke down 1” on 7 Iron and give it 90%’

The robot will hit the shot then go to the green that has already been mapped by a new green reading app where you lay your phone down on the breaks and data is uploaded. The player will have a total green map to study the night before.

He will see where his ball ened up, looked at his coach who pinpoints this on the app and can tell exactly how the ball will break the entire way based on his specific stroke pattern.

These players will eventually score better and that generation will talk about how much better they are than guys like Ben Hogan.

I will then use my new ‘bridge finder’ app, locate the highest bridge and jump off.
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Re: The D-Plane, Trackman, NBFL, etc. thread

Postby robbo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:16 pm

fyi - caddies on tour refrain from using the term "choke" to describe any sort of shot. Really!

Frozen - I appreciate your knowledge and reluctance to give away a bunch of "secrets" but why the teasing of these breakthrough theories with no follow-up/follow-thru? I understand it's just another golf forum and your not getting paid but really?! It starts to sound like the 2018 version of 5 Lessons! No disrespect but do you really want to leave future generations hanging like Ben apparently did?

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Re: The D-Plane, Trackman, NBFL, etc. thread

Postby Frozen Divots » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:12 pm

Robbo, Certainly not going to help do things that make the game worse. A green app? It could have the type of grass, its density based on temp, moisture,sunlight, growth rate, etc, which could give green speeds at different times of day, not too mention the mapping for real break based on THAT INFO.
All the data that matters could be used and given to a player quickly. I don't like when technical evolution results in the cranial devolution of the people themselves.

Imagine a junior golfer developing with all of these things and what it would change. They would have feelings and senses related to even more inputs outside of themselves. They would rely on these things and imagine what they would be without these things.

I remember my first range finder I got in maybe 2001. I used it for everything for a few years and on time the battery went dead and I have to play without it. I was kind of lost. I realized I better back off that and go back to my own senses, as well. Now it is an aid, sometimes, not a reliance.

As far as wooden drivers, you can do things they haven't done. Would this be good? Would it be good to have a wooden driver that added 40 yards?

I know exactly what to do because I have done it in other industries with metals for power transfer. It can be done but I don't think it would be good.

In short, there are properties of wood that can be altered. One could make a Persimmon driver a rocket launcher and not break a single rule of golf. I'll leave it at that.
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Re: The D-Plane, Trackman, NBFL, etc. thread

Postby k2baloo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:32 pm

Wait, let me get this straight... In addition to finding the perfect pivot that's better than Hogan's, you're also the greatest club designer of all time? But wait, you can't share the secret of the magic club with us? :lol: :lol:

I'm not sure I can take your posts seriously anymore... Serious question though. Say you attach a .830 COR club face to the front of a semi-truck that weighs 10,000 pounds. You drive the truck 115mph with no acceleration and hit a golf ball that is teed up in the center of the club face. How far would it carry? How about if the truck is accelerating at 500 mph/h and hits it exactly at 115mph?

I'm curious how you calculated 115mph to 375 yards. Surely, the above can be calculated? Assume 13 degree launch and 2200 spin at Sea level. 72 degrees Fahrenheit, no wind.
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Re: The D-Plane, Trackman, NBFL, etc. thread

Postby Frozen Divots » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:13 pm

I said you can alter things. You can alter wood, did you know that? Persimmon has specific gravity, rupture and elastic modulus properties, along with other things that can be changed with each other to make the wood transfer energy far more efficiently than what people did with these woods 40 years ago. You can also alter a baseball bat and ruin that game even more.
So, yes you can alter it so a 115 mph swing speed could hit the modern ball 375 yards easily.

Did you know there is a wood that was altered,that will be used soon in apartment buildings so they won't burn totally and collapse? Do you know how many lives that will save? It will eventually be used in all homes one day. Should I keep going?
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Re: The D-Plane, Trackman, NBFL, etc. thread

Postby k2baloo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:39 pm

I don't doubt you can make a driver where 115 mph club head speed translates to 375 yards. BUT I very, very highly doubt you can do it with a conforming club. I'm assuming you don't know how to calculate the answers to the above 2 questions then? In which case, I can't begin to imagine how you calculated the 375 yards... BTW, I'm talking about carry yardage at Sea level, not off the side of a Himalayan mountain.

Given the definition of coefficient of restitution, what you're proposing doesn't make sense. Plain and simple. It's very cool you can modify the properties of wood, but that doesn't address why I called you out.
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Re: The D-Plane, Trackman, NBFL, etc. thread

Postby Frozen Divots » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:10 pm

You are wrong at every level regarding energy transfer. I suggest you do some homework on energy transfer and how materials matter and how COR translates and changes. But in the end the tour would change the rules and make it illegal, anyhow. So I guess you'd be right, eventually. But that's not the point of this, anyhow.

The point is things are getting out of hand and what we see now is nowhere near where things will end up.
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Re: The D-Plane, Trackman, NBFL, etc. thread

Postby k2baloo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:41 pm

Frozen Divots wrote:You are wrong at every level regarding energy transfer. I suggest you do some homework on energy transfer and how materials matter and how COR translates and changes. But in the end the tour would change the rules and make it illegal, anyhow. So I guess you'd be right, eventually. But that's not the point of this, anyhow.

The point is things are getting out of hand and what we see now is nowhere near where things will end up.


I will do that. You do realize that the COR is the ratio of post and pre-collision relative velocities, right? So if you're getting higher ball speeds without changing club head mass or speed, it will have a higher measured COR (assuming center strike, etc..)... What about that is incorrect? But, since you're going to keep your 'secrets' to yourself, I guess there's no point in exploring this further.

Good luck to you this year. If you ever travel to WI, I would love to play a round with you, pick your brain, probably disagree some more, and see your pivot in action. Cheers.
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Re: The D-Plane, Trackman, NBFL, etc. thread

Postby Frozen Divots » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:49 pm

I understand COR and I also understand the pendulum test they use which is effective with metals, not on woods. They would have to change the test (how they do it and materials used), and I am sure they would. So in the end you'd be correct in that it would not conform.

Measuring energy transfer goes way behind what a golf association is doing. You could design a metal mixture that changes COR based on speed. Meaning the face has a higher gear the test won't catch. What good is the test now?

Kind of like how the HGH/drug world is always a step ahead of the testing.

In the world of energy transfer, the golf world is barely out of the stone ages. So what Lag wants Trackman to measure will only lead them down a road Lag won't like.

Maybe golf companies will then hire people who really know about this stuff, just Elon Musk may do someday...(lithium with colbalt, Elon. Really???? Rookie).
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Re: The D-Plane, Trackman, NBFL, etc. thread

Postby lagpressure » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:00 pm

Speed-Acceleration-Profile-3.png
Speed-Acceleration-Profile-3.png (116.58 KiB) Viewed 1822 times


Speed-Acceleration-Profile-2.png
Speed-Acceleration-Profile-2.png (115.12 KiB) Viewed 1821 times


Flightscope spits our acceleration profiles.

How would you interpret these? Where are they taking their measurements from? Curious.
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