Feelings

Re: Feelings

Postby Paul C » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:31 pm

[quote][/quote]But it definitely helps to understand that they do travel inside and above the ball.

Yes, but why do you make the point that they travel above the ball--that seems obvious to me, but maybe not. The hands through impact then would be higher than what they were at address, I suspect. What feel do you have with the hands coming inside and above, at and through impact? What's the opposite of higher hands--lower? and in relation to what?

I like your vinyl record/hammer imagery--makes sense. I read Clampett's book "The Impact Zone," ...mind in the hands and all that. It rang true, but the more I ruminated on it, the more my swing got handsy. I began forcing the forward shaft lean. My mind ended up in my arms and hands, and my pivot, my core, went to sleep. So now I'm trying to focus only on making a good pivot. I obviously don't know how to make one and sustain it, or I wouldn't be asking such basic questions--lol.

I need to strip the swing down to its bare essentials and rebuild it--both physically and mentally. Lag's philosophy has been an eye opener for me, but presently, I'm b/w swinging and hitting and not very well at either of them. Coupled with going flat, stiff and heavy with my irons, has added a new, but challenging dimension. All too much at once, I'm afraid. One I get the modules going, I'll get on track.

Thanks for your insight, Bom.
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Re: Feelings

Postby BomGolf222 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:27 pm

I think it's great that you're focusing on your pivot and building the internal structure as that keeps everything driving through. I make the point about the hands traveling above and inside the ball purely because that's what they do- it was in reference to them not being directed at the ball which is a problem for a lot of people developing their game. The hands don't come in higher in an ideal world, particularly in the ABS/hitting model, as that would be them breaking out onto a different track on the record if you can picture that. And if you're using flat clubs, high hands through impact would be even worse- flat clubs are part of eliminating that from happening. But I'm not a flat club expert, nor am I an ABS expert for that matter, I'm just sharing my own thoughts. Lag would be the man for clarifying those specifics for you.
I don't know Clampett's book, but I can understand what you're saying about getting it all into your hands- it's what a lot of TGM people end up doing. I'm not recommending that at all, just that it's important to develop a relationship with the club so you can know where it is and where you are- heavy and stiff will go a long way to developing your senses in that regard. I don't really like the mind in the hands thing because that does lead to the problems you stated, I'm referencing pushing out your awareness towards the club and clubface so they can become a part of your overall motion and that you can learn to know where it is in a similar way to how you know where the other parts of your body are while in motion. A martial arts friend of mine says he has equal dexterity and coordination in his arms and legs, that's the kind of overall awareness I'm talking about.
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Re: Feelings

Postby BomGolf222 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:06 am

I was thinking a little more about the mind in the hands idea and what's funny about it is that the actual goal is the complete opposite of that. Most people who pick up a golf club have their minds in their hands, and that's the problem. You're goal should be to put your mind everywhere, in your legs, in your back, in your Dantien, in the clubface, in your feet etc., etc. This kind of body awareness then makes sense out of loading into your legs because you can feel and understand that the force in your hands comes from somewhere else. You don't see any boxers standing around straight legged because their hands are in their legs, so to speak, or wherever it is they thrust from into a punch. Or their minds are in their legs, to compare it to that Clampett phrase.
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Re: Feelings

Postby Paul C » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:47 am

That's what makes the swing so interesting. You can put your mind in almost any bodypart--right ankle, inside left knee, top of the spine (C7), almost anywhere and get interesting results. When someone's playing well they say, "I wasn't thinking of anything, just swinging, thinking target..." Yes, but what were they feeling? Different feels for different days, b/c we wake up differently everyday--some days better than others. Success comes from minimizing thoughts on the course; should feels be minimized as well? It would be great to have a go-to feel everytime, I don't know if it's possible...
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Re: Feelings

Postby lagpressure » Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:27 am

This really is about the overall learning process of the golf swing. Connection or what I often refer to as "cohesive body tension" is something we learn over time. If there is one secret to hitting repeatable golf shots over and over and over it is having a strong sense of identifiable cohesion within the body from address to finish. This cohesion must also be harmony with proper clubhead path, acceleration, lowpoint stability and so forth. And this is why I teach the golf swing in real time, full speed sections. No different than learning chords on a piano or guitar. They feel contorted, strange, difficult, almost impossible at first, but with lots of repetition, practice, and dedication they become more relaxed, comfortable, easy and manageable over time. Once the student goes through this process, then we have a very good chance of really connecting the dots in a very tangible way.

This is one of the reasons I am not initially an alignment teacher. 99% of golfers line up to the right because they have to.
Their golf swing dictates this. It's not faulty eyesight. If you take a student and line them up correctly like a tour pro... it does not change their swing DNA. It's the same swing.... just that now they come OTT, pull the ball or slice the ball. They usually work their way back to the faulty alignment by the next time I see them.. because their smart to do so. The have a warped gun barrel. The brain is great a making these compensations. I don't blame their alignment.

I prefer to teach a proper biomechanical action first. Usually the students alignment will correct itself naturally over time.
If it doesn't, it becomes a fairly quick and easy fix once their body has had enough practice making the correct movements.

One of the pros I am working with sent me a video recently complaining about loss of distance and an inconsistent shot pattern. I could see from a DTL view on video that he was simply aiming right... and making some unhealthy compensations to work the ball where HE THOUGHT IT SHOULD GO!. We made a simple mechanical adjustment, a ball position-alignment adjustment.

That was great!!!! my impact is coming
back!!! I got my power and accuracy back too! Thanks!


This was only possible because he had already done the work with drills and so forth so that the lightbulb could happen instantly. This might have appeared to be a quick fix, but it was 8 months in the making really.
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Re: Feelings

Postby CVN72 » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:55 pm

before i get too far i want to know something


the "feeling" of the clubface just prior to impact....

do i have to have a massively closed clubface and shaft lean....via this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpYbjGjQ ... r_embedded


because to me....that doesnt seem to work when you try to do this.
http://www.vimeo.com/9083153

the second video doesnt seem like a ton of forward shaft lean. I see people all over talking about shaft lean but i dont see Ben having as much as everyone else says you should have. Although i must say....it is a TON of shaft flex involved in the 2nd video.

thanks

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Re: Feelings

Postby lagpressure » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:11 pm

Hitting or swinging would have different objectives and protocols.
So it depends upon what you are trying to do.. therefore determining which is right or wrong, or beneficial or counterproductive.

Dead hands vs active hands

Timing shaft straightening vs holding shaft flex
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Re: Feelings

Postby dthiele » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:46 am

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Re: Feelings

Postby Range Rat » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:16 pm

Lag's video of Hogan and Module 3 is simply a thing of beauty.....to watch the movements from that perspective is something to behold.

Starting to really get my noggin wrapped around saving R arm as so cleary shown in the video. To me, when the R wrist rolls early it is really a R arm detachment even though the arm remains tucked a little, or perhaps not even fully extended. In a way, it is almost like Norwoods "seal of the wrist" proclamation...in which I think he said something like if the wrist fails to hold, the hand basically gets detached from the arm...or something like that.

But if the hands fire properly...one can keep both R wrist bend and saved R arm at the same time. When I launch it properly the little pocket area of the R arm ( the place where a nurse will draw blood ) is skyward as if to catch some rain in the pocket. It's a very unusual feel going up into PV5 by way of Mod 3..but is spot on when done properly.

Thanks Lag....great, great stuff. :) RR
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Re: Feelings

Postby Range Rat » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:09 am

Add on to above. Had one of those moments today that was another eye-opener. Don't know that Lag will agree with this assessment but it concerns angled hinging. I have this notion that the entire purpose of being laid-off and, perhaps more importantly, open.....is another way of saying and feeling that we are actually "laying the toe of the club off" and both serve to make that process easier.

I don't use a pure drag load going back. Instead I roll the face open a tad so I can get the club deep behind me and to open the toe a touch. From there, the forearms lay the club off with the toe of the club now feeling even more laid off. If I can sustain that relationship and feel through the free ride, and fire properly- going into P4 it still feels like the toe is laid off. In other words, the toe has not rolled over.

What works for me with this notion, which is really a synergy with the toe of the club, is that I know immediately through the ball if the body stalls as the toe won''t hold it's laid off feel through P4. :) RR
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