The Rules Thread............

Re: The Rules Thread............

Postby turn » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:16 pm

stevemcgee99 wrote:
TeddyIrons wrote:I'm struggling to understand how the rules of golf and the law makers can ever come into contact. There is something warped about the idea that law makers can tell ruling bodies about the rules of their game. I've never heard of any judge telling the football associations of the world what kind of football they can and can't use.

I must be thick because I can't understand why judges feel they have any jurisdiction over such matters.


LOL

What's the context of Teddy's quote? What page?
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Re: The Rules Thread............

Postby stevemcgee99 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:02 pm

Somewhere in the 40's.

It's referencing PING ruling about grooves. My LOL is about Congress hubbub over footballs. They spent my money talking about baseball, too...


After reading this whole thread I think a few of the participants could do well to read Snowden on Cynefin model or Epstein 's "Simple Rules for aComplex World".

The USGS rules aren't complex, they are complicated. The circumstances on the course are complex. Specifying rules for all possible exceptions won't work- you'll get chaotic results.
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Re: The Rules Thread............

Postby lagpressure » Tue May 12, 2015 12:15 am

The Football issue:

Still, Manning said the punishment was "serious," even from the league. “Obviously the football, I think it is about integrity and you have to follow the rules. If someone’s breaking the rules I understand you’re gonna get punished for it," he said. “Obviously the NFL is serious about not messing with the integrity of the game, no matter big or little the issue is."


Reading this, I wish the NFL ran golf and not the USGA.
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Re: The Rules Thread............

Postby stevemcgee99 » Tue May 12, 2015 3:55 pm

A big pet peeve of mine is when people "game the game".

Today, there was a pair of college age guys ahead of my teeing off from the same tees I used, which were pretty far forward. I think only one Par 4 was 400 yards.

They used 460cc drivers. I feel like this should disqualify them! :evil:
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Re: The Rules Thread............

Postby lagpressure » Wed May 13, 2015 10:34 am

I was reading a bit on the history of the modern drivers. Most of the older persimmons were 190 cc. At one time, before the USGA capped size at 460cc, some company was making drivers 1000cc.

At 460cc, a modern driver is nearly two and a half times a big as what was historically played for a century. The USGA also relaxed it's "traditional design" policy allowing the square headed drivers and other obscurities.

So in a game like American Football, which seems marketed and aimed at every household in the country, they actually have a much stricter policy of enforcing the traditions of the game and keeping it's integrity. The slight deflating of the ball by one team has been under intense investigation and already the game's top player Brady has been banned from several games next year without him coming forward admitting guilt.

The golf ball is going up to 15% farther. Courses are trying to keep up. Steel spikes have essentially been banned for all players. The ball has gone from rubber to plastic and doesn't react anything like it used to.

But the golf community in general applauds these non traditional changes. The USGA acts like some kind of guardian jumping in and banning clubs over 460cc. Maybe they should have capped it years ago at 200cc? That would seem more logical based upon the history of the game.

Allowing this drastic of a change nearly, 250% increase... perspectively similar would be moving the speed limit on highways from 70 mph to 175 mph. While that might be fun for some, I certainly wouldn't want to have to be looking in my rear view constantly to see if a dot behind me is going to be flying by me seconds later. Not everyone wants to drive that fast. Is it ok to enjoy the scenic route on the way to Pebble Beach?

Is the quest for size and speed finally over? But what now? Is the game traditional again? The bar has been lowered so most anyone can propel the ball as far as the pros did in the past. Do we wait another 100 years to claim that golf is now a game of astute tradition and integrity? That they not allowed clubs to be bigger than they are today 100 years from now?

What is the point? We finally won the war against narrow fairways and having to hit long iron shots off the turf? Did we finally slay the dragon and relieve everyone of the frustration of having to negotiate a poor lie with a 2 iron?

We got more people into the game? More of the NFL fans coming off their Sunday couches for a stroll down the fairways in a motorized four wheeled golf cart? They left watching their game of tradition in favor of a game more trendy and flexible toward the changes in technology?

But the game is shrinking, and courses are closing from what I hear. Did this not work? What was wrong with how the game was played before? Has anyone at the USGA pondered such a question? What would Bobby Jones think? Does anyone care?

Why is my coffee so strong this morning?
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Re: The Rules Thread............

Postby stevemcgee99 » Wed May 13, 2015 12:17 pm

turn wrote:
stevemcgee99 wrote:What's the context of Teddy's quote? What page?

I don't know the page, but it was probably about Ping ruling. Possibly Congress and baseball.
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Re: The Rules Thread............

Postby lagpressure » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:19 pm



In the TRGA Rules which we played several events with, this is an example of a better way. We used this and it worked great. It certainly speeds up play. This WAS the old rule.

What if you are playing alone and you can't see the hole? No one there to attend? A solo golfer should be able to play by the rules in perfect harmony. This is supposed to be a game of honor :D

It makes absolutely ZERO sense that we are forced to have someone attend the pin. With today's rule, if the ball hits the pin from a player putting on the surface, it is a penalty? I think it is two strokes. WHY? If I chip from the fringe and the ball goes it.. nice birdie.

The USGA is NOT always making intelligent decisions.

While I usually harp on the giant headed frying pan drivers and the juiced up ball that now goes 50 yards farther, this is just another example of the kind of erroneous thinking that has been guiding the game into bizarre territory.
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Jack Nicklaus Blames Golf Ball for Recent Course Closures

Postby lagpressure » Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:45 am

Jack Nicklaus Blames Golf Ball for Recent Course Closures
Wed, Nov 30 2016


Golf is struggling, and the game's most decorated player has identified a culprit: the golf ball.

Speaking at the HSBC Golf Business Forum in Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida, on Tuesday, the 18-time major winner turned prolific course designer blamed changes in the golf ball for the recent spate of course closures throughout the United States.

"Fact is, more golf courses have closed in the U.S. in each of the last 10 years than have opened," Nicklaus said. "This is thanks in great part to changes in the golf ball and the distance it travels. Courses have had to change along with it. It's now a slower game and more expensive than before, and that can't be a good thing."

Nicklaus' solution is a creative one: create golf balls specifically tailored to each course instead of forcing courses to add length in response to longer-traveling golf balls.

"We don't want to change the game for the core golfer, but we need to make every effort to offer alternatives to bring more people into the game and keep them in the game," Nicklaus said. "I think we need to develop a golf ball to suit the golf course, rather than build courses to suit a golf ball. Whether it's a ball that goes 50%, 75%, or 100%, you play a ball that fits the course and your game."

According to Nicklaus, it's an easy fix for a very real problem for the game.

"It's not that big a deal," Nicklaus said. "We used to do it when traveling to play the Open and switching from the large ball to the small. It took us only a day to get used to a different ball. But when land is a dear commodity and water is scarce, you need to do something to respond to today's situation."



Simple solution Jack, just host a National Open where the pros play persimmon and blades with a high spinning ball that travels the same distance as the old balata balls. The public follows the example of the pros. It offers validation. Use your clout and influence and do this before it's too late! If you really care, walk your talk and do it.

There was nothing wrong with the classic game. It was a better game, more affordable, more interesting, quicker rounds, more personal, felt and sounded better and was more enjoyable.
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Re: Jack Nicklaus Blames Golf Ball for Recent Course Closures

Postby LesMurray » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:10 am

lagpressure wrote:
Jack Nicklaus Blames Golf Ball for Recent Course Closures
Wed, Nov 30 2016


Golf is struggling, and the game's most decorated player has identified a culprit: the golf ball.

Speaking at the HSBC Golf Business Forum in Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida, on Tuesday, the 18-time major winner turned prolific course designer blamed changes in the golf ball for the recent spate of course closures throughout the United States.

"Fact is, more golf courses have closed in the U.S. in each of the last 10 years than have opened," Nicklaus said. "This is thanks in great part to changes in the golf ball and the distance it travels. Courses have had to change along with it. It's now a slower game and more expensive than before, and that can't be a good thing."

Nicklaus' solution is a creative one: create golf balls specifically tailored to each course instead of forcing courses to add length in response to longer-traveling golf balls.

"We don't want to change the game for the core golfer, but we need to make every effort to offer alternatives to bring more people into the game and keep them in the game," Nicklaus said. "I think we need to develop a golf ball to suit the golf course, rather than build courses to suit a golf ball. Whether it's a ball that goes 50%, 75%, or 100%, you play a ball that fits the course and your game."

According to Nicklaus, it's an easy fix for a very real problem for the game.

"It's not that big a deal," Nicklaus said. "We used to do it when traveling to play the Open and switching from the large ball to the small. It took us only a day to get used to a different ball. But when land is a dear commodity and water is scarce, you need to do something to respond to today's situation."



Simple solution Jack, just host a National Open where the pros play persimmon and blades with a high spinning ball that travels the same distance as the old balata balls. The public follows the example of the pros. It offers validation. Use your clout and influence and do this before it's too late! If you really care, walk your talk and do it.

There was nothing wrong with the classic game. It was a better game, more affordable, more interesting, quicker rounds, more personal, felt and sounded better and was more enjoyable.


Nicklaus has been harping on the golf ball every since I got into the game back in the mid-80s. You're right, why hasn't he done anything about it? Time to go find a few pallets of old balatas and make every participant at the Memorial use that ball.
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Re: The Rules Thread............

Postby k2baloo » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:24 am

I would love to see a persimmon and blades tournament.

Many of the tour's events are honestly just very boring; I'm not surprised that most fans, like myself, only tune in for a handful of big events. I only tune in for the weekends at the majors. I think everyone would take an interest in watching the guys go out with Vintage Gear on a more classic track. It would be a good move for the game IMO.


Of course, you wouldn't be able to get the OEM's $$$ to back such an outing. But who cares? It would be like a once a year thing and would generate a lot of interest.
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