Holding Shaft Flex... The Holy Grail of Golf

[lagpressure]

Had the opportunity to watch this Mac video from years ago over the weekend. I had seen bits and pieces of this, but always thought it was too position oriented. Watching it in its entirely I actually think it is pretty simple. The focus on the head and eyeline being still makes sense, a 45 angle grip (relatively strong) makes sense because it reduces the need for forearm rotation (which Mac says is his goal) and gets the clubhead going up rather than around, arms straight under the body at address, the right arm never more than 90 degrees on the backswing, and downswing just drop the right shoulder a bit and then rotate keeping the bend in the body all the way to the finish. If you watch the Hogan video I posted you will see the same thing. I have heard some say you want to imagine the head of a pillow and you keep it there and just swivel it from impact to finish. Everything is based on being in balance. I also like the parts where he demonstrates release facing you. No rollover but the path (going inside with his body) is such that I wouldn't call it a hold. No hand manipulation at all.

In later years it looks like Mac violates some of these intentions, but I guess he was always seeking.

Mac rotates his forearms 90 degrees. He does not swing without forearm rotation. It is a ridiculous statement he is making.... suggesting you should try to eliminate all forearm rotation.

Proper forearm rotation does so many good things in the golf swing.
It acts not only as an additional power source, it also adds feel into the player's hands via acceleration and also acts as an anti OTT inhibitor, which is something Mac struggled with on the golf course often missing long and left. If Mac's right arm/elbow doesn't straighten properly on the downswing, the ball will start left and then consequently creates a decrease in loft which then sends the ball long left. Harder to get up and down from there, harder to putt from there. It's not a surprise that Mac would putt left handed to counter this.

Mac was a great striker of the ball, and when he was able to get his right arm/elbow straightening quickly on the downswing to spec, he had fantastic results. It is a viable method, but like any method, it is far from foolproof.

The other critical thing about Mac's methodology is you have to have incredible PIPT (post impact pivot thrust)... which Mac did. For Mac, there was no free ride down.
Hogan and Knudson, even Moe used the FRD along with a lateral transfer of weight as a sure fire over acceleration inhibitor. Having the extra forearm rotation gives a greater range of motion so that more pressure can be applied to the shaft through the strike without having to be as vicious as Mac had to be. Along with the understanding of heavier gear... aids greatly in distance control, because it takes much more effort to generate extra MPH into the strike. This way the player can really FEEL and in a tangible way the difference between 160, 165, 170 yards etc... With light clubs it's much harder to feel and make the proper distinction in the velocity needed for the given shot. For proof just watch any modern super golf event, and the pros will talk about how they "had good numbers out there today" and other BS. Those numbers are important to them for this very reason... the clubs are too light and they can't distinguish the differences in feel in the super golf game.

[Wknhacker]

Yet another reason could be my backswing starts getting a bit too long and relaxed, and I basically start swinging instead of hitting, and this works for a while because I am timing the straightening of the shaft into impact until suddenly I am not.

So in this case I'm assuming that you're thinking that you're feeling the shaft flex even though it's not there? ie. your brain is tricking you.

I played a round late last year before the winter and in my estimation I felt shaft flex on a number of shots in that round. The sound, shape and trajectory were also different from my normal shots, more so the irons than woods. But I really felt the pressure in the shaft from about P3 to P4 on those shots. Even the divots looked different from my normal divots. It was an addictive feeling and I've tried to keep it during these winter months with drill vidoes I purchased from Bradley's site, the 'lessons from the deck' videos, and reading the contents of this thread over and over.

One of the drills I've been doing over the winter months is pressuring down with my left leg (I'm a left handed player) and starting from P3 I swing/rotate to P4 all the while feeling the stress in the shaft and not letting the club head get past the hands and body. I use a vintage 'Campbell' branded 3 iron with a regular flex shaft because it's a heavy club and I want to feel the shaft flex which I get from the regular flex. I normally use S300 shafts which I like very much.

I have to say though that just having the intention of holding shaft flex from P3 to P4 creates so much other unintended good things in my swing. It eliminates all those stupid swing thoughts that creep into one's head. I just have one swing thought now - try to hold that flex/stress on the shaft. It also made me shorten by backswing to enable me to start accelerating the club from P3 instead from higher up in the backswing. I've been looking at Doug Sanders' backswing and to me it's ideal and it's exactly what you advocate - short arm travel, maximum shoulder rotation. It also made me think of post impact acceleration. And lastly, because of the extra ground pressures I'm forced to utilize, it's caused my balance to improve. Knudson talks a lot about balance and it sure does feel good to be completely balanced at the end of the swing.

When I saw the video of you talking about the tour player who had shaft flex then lost it it made me think that as soon as I get a chance this spring to hit some balls at the range and I don't feel that shaft flex, it back to square one. A disconcerting thought.

[nfbandon]

Be careful with that Sanders short backswing. Very few players that do that can hit their driver well. Short also can create quick. What we want is gradual acceleration. A longer BS gives you time to sequence better and gradually accelerate to the finish. The other thing is that you don't see many older golfers that play well that have a Sanders type swing. Indeed, they may have been good players when younger but can't generate anything with such a short swing when they get older.

[Wknhacker]

Be careful with that Sanders short backswing. Very few players that do that can hit their driver well. Short also can create quick. What we want is gradual acceleration. A longer BS gives you time to sequence better and gradually accelerate to the finish. The other thing is that you don't see many older golfers that play well that have a Sanders type swing. Indeed, they may have been good players when younger but can't generate anything with such a short swing when they get older.

Indeed. The Sanders type backswing can bring trouble if not executed properly. But I believe if you rotate your shoulders fully to, or pass 90 degrees, it's perfectly fine.

I went with this type of backswing because I found that with the long backswing I tended to accelerate from the top too quickly and sometimes even cast the club. This short backswing enables me to have more control of the club and I can feel the stress in the shaft much better. I'm still a young guy so generating the speed and gradual acceleration from P3 isn't a problem - yet.

[lagpressure]

Be careful with that Sanders short backswing. Very few players that do that can hit their driver well. Short also can create quick. What we want is gradual acceleration. A longer BS gives you time to sequence better and gradually accelerate to the finish. The other thing is that you don't see many older golfers that play well that have a Sanders type swing. Indeed, they may have been good players when younger but can't generate anything with such a short swing when they get older.

Indeed. The Sanders type backswing can bring trouble if not executed properly. But I believe if you rotate your shoulders fully to, or pass 90 degrees, it's perfectly fine.

I went with this type of backswing because I found that with the long backswing I tended to accelerate from the top too quickly and sometimes even cast the club. This short backswing enables me to have more control of the club and I can feel the stress in the shaft much better. I'm still a young guy so generating the speed and gradual acceleration from P3 isn't a problem - yet.

Flat is fine as long as you rotate your shoulders fully AND get full forearm rotation... they you are fine. If you don't get your forearms rotated properly, the shaft will be steep and the face shut and the green light to hit hard with the pivot will be shut off. Wider stance with proper weight transfer will also do wonders to make that work.

[Range Rat]

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Take a look at Babe Ruth here (middle pic)...how would he pressure this bat? The way he does it allows him to swing the heaviest bat around. This is the same pressure you want in a golf swing...change the orientation to a golf backswing position...and the heavier you can make the club head, the better.

Going over Frozen's contributions here and another thread waiting for weather to break, and have a pretty good handle on minimizing torque error and negative acceleration, good stuff. New YT posting on the Babe, and pulled this GIF together. Hey Frozen if you're still around, I still see this as short to long- the barrel looks like negative acceleration but is really reacting to the hands which are torqueing circularly forward.

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Here's the video:

[Ded2Journey]

Outstanding stuff RR...been brushing up on my chasing silver videos too. We appreciate ya!