Super Slotting the Golf Club

Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby lagpressure » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:49 pm

knudson2.gif
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby eagle » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:15 am

nfbandon wrote:I actually think it more desirable to slot it with a bit of an outside DS handpath. This is something I have toyed around with this year (see my X marks the spot videos), but I have not had the ability to really twist the knife (my expression for CW forearm rotation) because of the tear in my left rotator cuff. The outside and loop it in aaproach tends to send the hands inside but aims the hand path too far to the right. With an OTT layoff you are kind of aiming left post impact already. It also activates the right shoulder, and I hit the ball the best when my right shoulder is moving aggressively through the shot.

I am at the breaking up the scar tissue stage now and really look forward to exploring this with maximum CW forearm rotation in transition.


More good food for thought...
I supposed this is along the lines of what John has discussed as a BS/transition option, describing it once as "over, but still under" (maybe a non-poisonous/ benign OTT). It does seem to "activate" the right shoulder, and feels more powerful.
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby lagpressure » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:46 am

In the Knudson photos, his hands are not really working toward the ball but down and inside the ball as he would come into P3.
It's intuitive for a golfer to want to drive their hands straight down toward the ball and even into the back of the ball (3:00)

Most of the great strikers worked their hands down close to their right thigh. Knudson talked about hitting from his right hip pocket. I certainly feel the same thing. Hogan's illustration of the pane of glass running from his shoulders to the ball would suggest why he had the second plane tilted out to the right because to work into the second plane one would have to loop slightly to the inside.

The slight look of the hands moving forward vs down at transition should be the result of the shoulders moving level quickly, and not an attempt to move the hands themselves directly out and away toward the ball. There needs to be an increasing of pressure building in the armpits loading the weight of the club and pressuring for delivery. The preservation of forearm rotation down to P3 will keep the clubhead back or laid off looking, but this again is only going to be a functional move if the forearms and hands have the guns at the bottom to get the club back to the ball with a late, delayed hit.. or pulling the sword from the stone. The delayed action increases the range of motion for the club to travel where it counts... so that pressure can be applied and the club can accelerate through the strike more efficiently.

If the right shoulder makes an aggressive move turning level right at transition, then the hands need to really feel an opposing direction resisting that, or at the least feeling down rather than out. The "look" is a result of something else (shoulder rotation) because if the hands moved out independently without a pressure loading into the armpits, then the hands would work much more in a straight line toward the ball and not down and inside of that.

The left wrist flattens out because of the pressure exerted upon it.. not by any manipulation of the hands themselves.

We see and have heard a lot of the great strikers talk about pulling a church bell rope downward at transition or showing the right elbow folding under and laying the shaft back. This is the correct feeling. The look of the hands moving slightly forward while still keeping the shaft back and laid off is correct if the transition is quick, aggressive and the shoulders are working level quickly. But if you don't first learn to strike from the P3 tabletop with good efficiency, then attempting to work the hands out and away is going to create a steep shaft OTT disaster.
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby Hope » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:50 pm

Lag-
I was watching your Youtube videos where you are superslotting an iron and then you posted one hitting a driver.
those are great swings!
Is your iron swing different than your driver swing? has it changed since your last video? the reason why I ask is because your iron swing does not have a cupping of the left wrist like your driver swing. the iron swing is a clear representation of severe forearm rotation, where the driver swing has a different look. I'm thinking that the difference is probably that they are different clubs and that's why they look differently.
Thank you for posting swings for public. Most instructors don't do that.
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby SlamminSam2 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:15 pm

I don't understand why you would put that gif there Lag when there are two frames in between where his hands go significantly out before coming back in. I don't care one way or another about the technique as I'm not a coach and don't have a dog in the fight, but it comes across that you're proving a point fraudulently there.
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby 1teebox » Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:50 pm

It can be seen another way.
Leaving out the missing frames from the gif above demonstrates that Knudson's hand path ultimately arrives in good position for the strike regardless what the preceding (missing) arc may have been.
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby lagpressure » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:44 pm

Yes,

My point being that even in Knudson's case, his hands come in very low and close to his body. Most who would try to work the hands out and away from the body, more of an OTT move from the top will come into impact with high hands and a more upright entry into impact.

The path of the hands on the downswing will have a lot to do with the motion of the shoulders.. particularly the left shoulder and it's leading action.

If the intention of the hands is to move more downward at transition, then it allows an opportunity for a more delayed acceleration of the torso through the strike. It also increases the range of motion of the clubhead itself without having to increase arm travel. This is a typical action we see in so many of the great ball strikers. It's simpler and really allows one to hit.
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby lagpressure » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:00 pm

Lag-
I was watching your Youtube videos where you are superslotting an iron and then you posted one hitting a driver.
those are great swings!
Is your iron swing different than your driver swing? has it changed since your last video? the reason why I ask is because your iron swing does not have a cupping of the left wrist like your driver swing. the iron swing is a clear representation of severe forearm rotation, where the driver swing has a different look. I'm thinking that the difference is probably that they are different clubs and that's why they look differently.
Thank you for posting swings for public. Most instructors don't do that.


Nothing different in intentions. The driver being longer and in that sense relatively heavier while of course being swung on a significantly flatter plane. The driver is also on a tee, so that flattens the plane also.

I don't think consciously about holding a cupped left wrist, but I can assure you I am trying to resist it flattening out too much or too soon. The flatter the shaft and the more slotted or laid off, the more that tends to flatten out the wrist. But again, I am never trying to flatten out the wrist.. not even at impact. Quite the opposite. It gets pinned flat through pressures and a lot of force acting upon it.

I'll post some new swings up soon. It's been a while and I have been working on some new concepts that have helped me to feel things much more automatically through transition... but one has to remember that any increase in slotting the club must be accompanied by a proportional increase in post impact pivot acceleration and fiercer forearm rotation.

Videos I post hitting off the deck don't always allow me to dig in with the footwork in a way I would always like to... but for many of the more general concepts I am demonstrating, it's fair enough.
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby LesMurray » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:21 pm

lagpressure wrote:... I am never trying to flatten out the wrist.. not even at impact. Quite the opposite. It gets pinned flat through pressures and a lot of force acting upon it.


I am sensing this intent as I work Mod 4. I try to hold wrist cock into impact, yet the wrists and forearms are still bringing the club into the ball for me. It happens almost automagically.
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby SlamminSam2 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:24 am

lagpressure wrote:Yes,

My point being that even in Knudson's case, his hands come in very low and close to his body. Most who would try to work the hands out and away from the body, more of an OTT move from the top will come into impact with high hands and a more upright entry into impact.

The path of the hands on the downswing will have a lot to do with the motion of the shoulders.. particularly the left shoulder and it's leading action.


I agree with these statements and obviously just having the hand move over the plane during the start of the downswing is not a goal in and of itself. It does show up in a lot of great swings however, in my experience the vast majority. In my opinion it is in direct alignment with turning the shoulders in a level manner and retaining wrist cock while shallowing the shaft. I absolutely agree that the hands have a direct effect on the shoulders, which is why I don't subscribe to a straight down movement from the top, it can lead to swinging too much down the line with steep shoulders. Getting to that position with the hands in close with a strong pivot is definitely something you want as you say Lag, I guess how you get there is up to you!
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