Super Slotting the Golf Club

Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby SlamminSam2 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:27 am

I also think having more 'carry' as it has been termed, can help you get the butt of the club further forward which would allow more forearm rotation at the bottom with a more rotary motion and necessitate less arm travel through impact.
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby lagpressure » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:07 pm

I think this is exactly the point about the hands intention to move down rather than out. If the right shoulder tucks down at transition and the hands work down.... then this is followed by a steep and under shoulder movement through the strike, then this will create an excess of inside out through the strike. Usually a swinger's release, lots of timing and clubface rotation post impact.

If the shoulders rotate level as they start down, the hands better have a counter pressure going on so that the upper arms pack into the body rather than the arms shooting out and away from the body as most hackers do.

The pressure in the armpits at the top of the swing does not need to be fully loaded and compressed there. Better that this happens on the downswing.

So many great strikers have used the analogy of pulling the bell rope down, left palm toward the right foot, striking from the right hip pocket... etc. I can't imagine that not being a fairly universal sensation among deep slotters throughout history.

There are numerous things that will affect the exact path of the hands coming down... such as the amount of forearm rotation, the weight, length, lie angle of the club, the position of the right shoulder whether it starts lower or higher in the socket, how quickly or gradually the shoulder rotation accelerates, how much one is pressuring off the right foot, the effectiveness of weight transfer through the strike, how the right elbow acts through transition and into P3, how much spine tilt... and of course how one grips the club also. How the right shoulder works through the strike etc...

The amount of time or travel that the "layoff" exists into the downswing need be proportionate to the effectiveness, strength and speed of the forearm rotation from P3 into the strike.
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby norcalvol » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:57 pm

lagpressure wrote:...If the right shoulder tucks down at transition and the hands work down.... then this is followed by a steep and under shoulder movement through the strike, then this will create an excess of inside out through the strike. Usually a swinger's release, lots of timing and clubface rotation post impact.


I've been wondering about this when doing Mod 2 (and Mod 2 +3) drills. The spine tilt that we have at P3 during the drill... the right shoulder is lower than the left... is the potential problem that you describe (under shoulder movement through the strike) resolved by pivoting, with our torso becoming more erect by a very strong turning of the torso through the strike (which is what I try to do in Mod 2+3 drill) rather than preserving that tilt through the strike? [The mental image I have of someone who preserves that tilt through the strike is Dustin Johnson, who uses a swinger's release and seems to have extreme tilt going through).

It seems to be making sense to me now why you would want a level shoulder turn as opposed to a tilt through impact (beyond the fact that it is difficult to get steep with a level shoulder turn) --- there would be no way to make an effective, full pivot into P4 and beyond if you preserved that tilt. I see that perhaps the level shoulder turn through the strike is more of an effect of a strong, full, complete pivot thru P4 into PV5 instead of a conscious move in and of itself (the conscious move is the pivot itself, the level shoulders are a result). Is this a correct feeling/interpretation?

lagpressure wrote:The amount of time or travel that the "layoff" exists into the downswing need be proportionate to the effectiveness, strength and speed of the forearm rotation from P3 into the strike.


Is the travel taken during the "layoff"... is this/can this be all the way to P3? (i.e., Mod 1 actually begins at the end of a long-travel version of a layoff?)
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby lagpressure » Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:59 am

The left shoulder working level vs working up is a big difference between two major schools of thought... hitting vs swinging.
The idea of keeping your head still as long as possible may sound logical but in doing so... it will slow the movement of the left shoulder post impact significantly. The faster and farther the left shoulder moves away from the ball beyond the strike the more acceleration can be applied to the clubhead through the strike. The flat shoulder rotation also sets up a situation where the clubface can stay square to the target much longer. Far less timing once it's mastered.

The layoff of the shaft through transition increases the distance the clubhead is from the ball without having to increase the arm travel.

Big shoulder turn... short arm travel, lots of layoff through transition. It's a repeating theme with the majority of great strikers.
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby Paul C » Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:02 am

lagpressure wrote:Most of the great strikers worked their hands down close to their right thigh. Knudson talked about hitting from his right hip pocket. I certainly feel the same thing. Hogan's illustration of the pane of glass running from his shoulders to the ball would suggest why he had the second plane tilted out to the right because to work into the second plane one would have to loop slightly to the inside.

We see and have heard a lot of the great strikers talk about pulling a church bell rope downward at transition or showing the right elbow folding under and laying the shaft back. This is the correct feeling. The look of the hands moving slightly forward while still keeping the shaft back and laid off is correct if the transition is quick, aggressive and the shoulders are working level quickly. But if you don't first learn to strike from the P3 tabletop with good efficiency, then attempting to work the hands out and away is going to create a steep shaft OTT disaster.


This sensation of the club working down into the right hip pocket rather than laterally toward the target really is sinking in. For me, I have to feel an aggressive whipping motion of the right forearm/hand into the strike almost from the top (see photo in module 1 execution by the greats) in order to release the club on the inside quadrant of the ball. I fight releasing the clubhead, getting stuck, lose spine tilt and come OTT, especially with driver, because I muscle the club laterally in a false notion this provides power. My thoughts lately are to keep a very quiet lower body in the shift down, the arms leading the downswing, module 1 action which gets the left hip bumping ahead correctly and in synch with the torso. Reading what long drivers have to say and many of them believe that 85 percent of distance and power come from the speed generated by the arms. That translates to me as forearm rotation. Look at young Nicklaus and Palmer hitting persimmon drivers for evidence.
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby swingsearch » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:43 am

Hi guys,

this is my first post here after being a lurker for couple of month about the very interesting ABS swing concept. I play golf for almost 30 years now and I am always looking for improvement and different swing concepts. I also read a lot on golfwrx and have found there a pretty interesting swing pattern what has motivated me to post here and ask the community, if this would be the super slotting concept?



Probably someone has read the controversial discussion about the teacher, Cary Schoen, who seems to be a little bit to provoking for the majority of people. :o
However, as you can imagine, I find his approach very interesting and worth to evaluate.

Have a nice day!

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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby swingsearch » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:42 am

And here is my second post with some scientific data you might know or not, which is pretty interesting in relation to ABS. What do you think?
You can view the whole vid or skip to 4.55, when he is talking about the wrist torque in the downswing.

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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby lagpressure » Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:31 am

I disagree.
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby SlamminSam2 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:02 pm

Those swings at the end weren't great were they? Ha ha.
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby k2baloo » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:44 pm

swingsearch wrote:And here is my second post with some scientific data you might know or not, which is pretty interesting in relation to ABS. What do you think?
You can view the whole vid or skip to 4.55, when he is talking about the wrist torque in the downswing.



Thanks for the post swingsearch.
I actually watched the whole thing and thought a lot of the information was really good. Although I thought some of the images of the release he used as examples were just terrible... I don't want to copy Luke Donald's release. Not that he isn't a terrific player, but I don't think he is or ever will be studied as a terrific ball-striker.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't care for isolating the swing into a bunch of little phases that all have to be connected in sequence, it just lacks continuity.

Back to the original question about weather or not this is superslotting... Just my opinion is no, because I can see room for more than just a pulling action in transition.
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