Super Slotting the Golf Club

Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby swingsearch » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:56 pm

SlamminSam2 wrote:Those swings at the end weren't great were they? Ha ha.


Which swing? Chip Beck or the one out of the first post of mine?
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby swingsearch » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:01 pm

k2baloo wrote:
swingsearch wrote:And here is my second post with some scientific data you might know or not, which is pretty interesting in relation to ABS. What do you think?
You can view the whole vid or skip to 4.55, when he is talking about the wrist torque in the downswing.



Thanks for the post swingsearch.
I actually watched the whole thing and thought a lot of the information was really good. Although I thought some of the images of the release he used as examples were just terrible... I don't want to copy Luke Donald's release. Not that he isn't a terrific player, but I don't think he is or ever will be studied as a terrific ball-striker.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't care for isolating the swing into a bunch of little phases that all have to be connected in sequence, it just lacks continuity.

Back to the original question about weather or not this is superslotting... Just my opinion is no, because I can see room for more than just a pulling action in transition.


The release in the second vid is more a scientific approach and not specific ABS. I personally was more interested in the torque section regarding Beta toque.
The first post shows a golfer, who has lots of negative Beta torque in transition, which looks like super slotting to me.
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby swingsearch » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:02 pm

lagpressure wrote:I disagree.

Hi Lag,

would you elaborate why? Is the first post golfer not super slotting?
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby k2baloo » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:35 pm

I would have to agree with swing search on the first swing posted. Looks to have a strong slotting action in transition
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby lagpressure » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:31 am

I respect the time he has taken to put together a teaching system based upon a series of perceptions that lean on "scientific data".

However, I disagree with the interpretations of the data. These are not absolutes or I would not be not be able to break the rules of every one of them and still be a quality ball striker.

There is no perfect grip.. that's false. I've seen all kinds of grips shoot 64's... and I mean that when players had to hit long irons into par 4's not the drive and wedge game of today.

Measuring angles of the body in static positions is completely useless. The golf swing must be measured in full speed dynamic motion if it be measured at all.

Stretching the chest upward in the backswing will create a loss of spine tilt leaving the arms blocked from the 4:30 line on the downswing unless the body does some contorted unnecessary re routing on the downswing. This is not a power move, and certainly not a accuracy move.

He mentions flattening the shaft out and how most good players do this.. but no explanation on how this is done or why one should do this. Pretty critical oversight.

The waist high swing plane is a toxic image.

Shut face on the downswing puts the clubface completely out of sync with the torso rotation... unless you like missing greens long and left.

The downswing is not simply a pulling down of the club. There is a pushing motion also.

Promoting a hand flick through the ball with a pivot stall is a good way to make ball striking very difficult.

The idea that you should try to lift up is not anything I could imagine teaching. The shoulders rotating level is ideal for several reasons, and in doing so there will be some lift.. but the focus cannot be on lifting up unless you want to stall the pivot and flick at the ball with the hands disconnected from the pivot rotation. Any lifting is a by product of flat rotation.
You don't just try to lift up.

Squaring the clubface with torso rotation is better, and is not corrupting the sequence of events as he suggested... not my sequence.

He doesn't like a high right shoulder through impact.. but I try to have as high a right shoulder as I can when combined with a proper downswing or superslotting... that is ideal. Ian Woosnam and Peter Senior did just fine with high right shoulders. Chi Chi, Hal Sutton.. on and on...

This looks more like a stack and tilt approach with a swingers release.

Better to strive for holding shaft flex into impact and minimizing clubface rotation post impact. Shallow out entry and exit paths for better energy transfer into the ball, cleaner divots and flatter lie angles will keep the ball from going left. Heavier gear will allow for better distance control on shots, better for off centered hits, increased distance using lower velocities with added mass and better compression and feel into your hands where it really matters.
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby swingsearch » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:38 am

lagpressure wrote:I respect the time he has taken to put together teaching system based upon a series of perceptions based upon certain "scientific data".

However, I disagree with the interpretations of the data. There are not absolutes or I would not be not be able to break the rules of every one of them and still be a quality ball striker.

There is no perfect grip.. that's false. I've seen all kinds of grips shoot 64's... and I mean that when players had to hit long irons into par 4's not the drive and wedge game of today.

Measuring angles of the body in static positions is completely useless. The golf swing must be measured in full speed dynamic motion if it be measured at all.

Stretching the chest upward in the backswing will create a loss of spine tilt leaving the arms blocked from the 4:30 line on the downswing unless the body does some contorted unnecessary re routing on the downswing. This is not power move, and certainly not a accuracy move.

He mentions flattening the shaft out and how most good players do this.. but no explanation on how this is done or why one should do this. Pretty critical oversight.

The waist high swing plane is a toxic image.

Shut face on the downswing puts the clubface completely out of sync with the torso rotation... unless you like missing greens long and left.

The downswing is not simply a pulling down of the club. There is a pushing motion also.

Promoting a hand flick through the ball with a pivot stall is a good way to make ball striking very difficult.

The idea that you should try to lift up is not anything I could imagine teaching. The shoulders rotating level is ideal for several reasons, and in doing so there will be some lift.. but the focus cannot be on lifting up unless you want to stall the pivot and flick at the ball with the hands disconnected from the pivot rotation.

Squaring the clubface with torso rotation is better, and is not corrupting the sequence of events as he suggested... not my sequence.

He doesn't like a high right shoulder through impact.. but I try to have as high a right shoulder as I can when combined with superslotting... that is ideal. Ian Woosnam and Peter Senior did just fine with high right shoulders. Chi Chi, Hal Sutton.. on and on...

This looks more like a stack and tilt approach with a swingers release.

Better to strive for holding shaft flex into impact and minimizing clubface rotation post impact. Shallow out entry and exit paths for better energy transfer into the ball, cleaner divots and flatter lie angles will keep the ball from going left. Heavier gear will allow for better distance control on shots, better for off centered hits, increased distance using lower velocities with added mass and better compression and feel into your hands where it really matters.


Thanks Lag for taking the time to give an detailed answer. However, there might be a misunderstanding here. The first post with the "best swing ever..." guy seems to look like super slotting. The second post with the scientific stuff is not even close to ABS. Was only interesting to me in regards of the torques. Sorry for the confusion! :oops:
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby SlamminSam2 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:15 am

swingsearch wrote:
SlamminSam2 wrote:Those swings at the end weren't great were they? Ha ha.


Which swing? Chip Beck or the one out of the first post of mine?



I was talking about the Chip Beck slap!
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby k2baloo » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:51 am

SlamminSam2 wrote:
swingsearch wrote:
SlamminSam2 wrote:Those swings at the end weren't great were they? Ha ha.


Which swing? Chip Beck or the one out of the first post of mine?



I was talking about the Chip Beck slap!


Yeah didn't look too pretty, but his results speak for themselves
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby lagpressure » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:50 am

11.jpg
11.jpg (43.17 KiB) Viewed 4892 times


This is typical of players who obsess over the position at the top, downswing with tons of lag etc. They rarely have the structure and pivot dynamic to handle such a load. Angles on the downswing mean nothing if you don't have the post impact rotational thrust to keep the the torso ahead of the golf club. The clubshaft flips when acceleration zero's out. One can still get "the look" by throwing the right arm at the ball and moving the shaft off plane, but that is not ideal either. In this case,
there is a disconnect of the golf club from the core rotation leaving the club free wheeling and no longer being controlled by the player. The torso moves too quick too soon creating the big lag look, but then stalls because it can't keep accelerating at that rate, then all the pressure gets dumped early like a pressure valve exploding before impact. While there is some CF pull still in the hands, the master striker will maintain tangential pressure in the hands because the golf club is still being driven by the core long past impact. That kind of feel in the hands post impact is the lifeblood of top quality ball striking.
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Re: Super Slotting the Golf Club

Postby SlamminSam2 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:13 pm

k2baloo wrote:
SlamminSam2 wrote:
swingsearch wrote:
SlamminSam2 wrote:Those swings at the end weren't great were they? Ha ha.


Which swing? Chip Beck or the one out of the first post of mine?



I was talking about the Chip Beck slap!


Yeah didn't look too pretty, but his results speak for themselves


He hasn't got any good results with that swing! His old swing was way better before he lost the plot.
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