Current PGA tour

Re: Current PGA tour

Postby lagpressure » Sat May 05, 2018 4:21 pm

k2baloo wrote:It's possible that spin rates vary more later in flight than when they're measured.
Also possible dimples play a factor.
However, the sidespin terminology should be avoided IMO. The amount of 'side spin' is just a product of the spin rates and the axis of rotation. There's nothing magic in a ball that allows it to know if it's rotating on a tilted axis....


I really prefer to use simple to understand terminology that everyone can relate to.. even someone who has only been playing golf for a few months. People know what backspin is... people know what topspin is. These are common terms for various sports and ball games. I just want to communicate with people and not get lost in translation.

Sidespin as a term is either going to be left to right (clockwise) .... meaning I am going to hit the ball with a glancing blow relatively outside to inside creating cutspin or a fade of slice.

Or I could put right to left sidespin or hookspin.. (counterclockwise).... this drawing or hooking the ball.

I am sure there is a proper scientific description a few might understand, and we could get into Venturi Effect, high and low pressure systems, force and drag, pitch and yaw, camber etc. I just don't see that being much help to anyone regarding playing golf. Even the scientists will understand simple terminology that they can then extrapolate into something more complex if they choose.

Now if we get into designing an ABS spec golf ball, then we might need more advanced terminology to explain what we are doing with it and how it is affecting ball flight from a design perspective.
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Re: Current PGA tour

Postby Ded2Journey » Sun May 06, 2018 5:35 am

To me the simple fact of the matter is that the ball needs to stay on the face longer. End of story. That's how we dial the game back.
If you bounce a golf ball now, it will rocket off the pavement to shoulder height+. 10-15 years ago, it would only bounce about waist high.
Think about what happens to that same material at 120+ mph...

I would love to see a persimmon, standard size course (say 6500-7200 yards), and a golf ball that isn't made out of super ball material. However, I just think this is too much of a leap.

The issue is, with certain polymers--d plane becomes almost perfectly straight (with regards to path and face angle, assuming AoA is within parameters) even with a block or a pull. Simply, the ball doesn't have enough time to do anything other than rocket off the face wherever it is pointing. That is why you never see anyone other than Tiger working the ball that much...it's too damn hard.

NOW, if the ball stayed on the face a touch longer, say a microsecond...now we can account for plane, AoA, Path, clubface stability, clubface rate of closure, d-plane axis, etc. This would create a new world of ball control that has been somehow lost--forcing the tour pros to stop stalling and slapping. I firmly believe this would also cause a loss of distance because the energy transfer from club to ball would lose efficiency...

Do we have to go back to rubber bands? I don't think so...maybe just a super low compression ball???
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Re: Current PGA tour

Postby lagpressure » Sun May 06, 2018 9:18 am

Ded2Journey wrote:To me the simple fact of the matter is that the ball needs to stay on the face longer. End of story. That's how we dial the game back.
If you bounce a golf ball now, it will rocket off the pavement to shoulder height+. 10-15 years ago, it would only bounce about waist high.
Think about what happens to that same material at 120+ mph...

I would love to see a persimmon, standard size course (say 6500-7200 yards), and a golf ball that isn't made out of super ball material. However, I just think this is too much of a leap.

The issue is, with certain polymers--d plane becomes almost perfectly straight (with regards to path and face angle, assuming AoA is within parameters) even with a block or a pull. Simply, the ball doesn't have enough time to do anything other than rocket off the face wherever it is pointing. That is why you never see anyone other than Tiger working the ball that much...it's too damn hard.

NOW, if the ball stayed on the face a touch longer, say a microsecond...now we can account for plane, AoA, Path, clubface stability, clubface rate of closure, d-plane axis, etc. This would create a new world of ball control that has been somehow lost--forcing the tour pros to stop stalling and slapping. I firmly believe this would also cause a loss of distance because the energy transfer from club to ball would lose efficiency...

Do we have to go back to rubber bands? I don't think so...maybe just a super low compression ball???


The wound ball had unique characteristics about it. Solid core balls were around for a long time also during the wound ball era. They started as range balls because they were cheap and people didn't care about them. The rubber bands are going to respond differently when compressed than any kind of polymer material. Eventually they made a better solid core ball. The Topflite and early Pinnacle ball did go farther off the irons, but not so much with the driver.
The ball did not spin as much and could not be worked or shaped as well as the wound balls. People bought the solid core balls because they were both cheaper and more durable. They used to advertise that you could not "cut" a Topflite. No good players used them for serious competition.

To me, the modern balls are just souped up Topflites with a cover that spins a bit better, but not much difference if any at all in workability.
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Re: Current PGA tour

Postby Ded2Journey » Sun May 13, 2018 8:56 am

Topic Shift Here...

Thoughts on Alex Noren's pre-shot routine and swing? I think he's got a ton of really interesting things going on, and he is known for his ballstriking...

Pre Shot Routine:


Full Swing w/ Slow Mo:
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Re: Current PGA tour

Postby k2baloo » Sun May 13, 2018 9:45 am

I like his swing a lot. I wish he got more into his right side though; that's something I struggle with myself. I could see him struggling with his driver but being great through the rest of the bag. I don't know much about him so that could be completely wrong.
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Re: Current PGA tour

Postby Ded2Journey » Sun May 13, 2018 10:10 am

k2baloo wrote:I like his swing a lot. I wish he got more into his right side though; that's something I struggle with myself. I could see him struggling with his driver but being great through the rest of the bag. I don't know much about him so that could be completely wrong.


Seems to be a modified stack and tilt/O'Grady move to me. Not sure about that pre shot routine, but I like a lot of what he is doing. I think his driver is too upright...opens him up to blocks and hooks with that shallower move through the ball.
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Re: Current PGA tour

Postby nfbandon » Sun May 13, 2018 10:53 am

My understanding is this came from Mac in the 90s. Lots of people say it is Gankas, but GG doesn't want you on the left leg that fast. Alex puts death grip on the club and hits staight down on it with the right shoulder working under. He takes the left side of out of play hitting slider cuts. His motion isn't great for the modern driver.
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Re: Current PGA tour

Postby IronOfZion » Mon May 14, 2018 1:44 am

nfbandon wrote:My understanding is this came from Mac in the 90s. Lots of people say it is Gankas, but GG doesn't want you on the left leg that fast. Alex puts death grip on the club and hits staight down on it with the right shoulder working under. He takes the left side of out of play hitting slider cuts. His motion isn't great for the modern driver.


He went to Oklahoma State (under Mike Holder) around the time of Hunter Mahan. He can do some crazy stuff with a lob wedge too...
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Re: Current PGA tour

Postby Ded2Journey » Mon May 14, 2018 5:04 pm

IronOfZion wrote:
nfbandon wrote:My understanding is this came from Mac in the 90s. Lots of people say it is Gankas, but GG doesn't want you on the left leg that fast. Alex puts death grip on the club and hits staight down on it with the right shoulder working under. He takes the left side of out of play hitting slider cuts. His motion isn't great for the modern driver.


He went to Oklahoma State (under Mike Holder) around the time of Hunter Mahan. He can do some crazy stuff with a lob wedge too...


I assume you've seen him in person? I don't know a ton about Holder...might have to do some research. Thanks for sharing...
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Re: Current PGA tour

Postby IronOfZion » Tue May 15, 2018 12:17 am

Ded2Journey wrote:
IronOfZion wrote:He went to Oklahoma State (under Mike Holder) around the time of Hunter Mahan. He can do some crazy stuff with a lob wedge too...


I assume you've seen him in person? I don't know a ton about Holder...might have to do some research. Thanks for sharing...


I saw him play once but that's it :)
At the time he was one of the few players with an active blog/site describing his daily practice routine and the 'tour' life...
IIRC he worked with Pete Cowen at some time on a swing change.
Here are some video's from that time:

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