What Moves First

What Moves First

Postby Range Rat » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:08 pm

There was a thread started about this topic on GolfWRX that was removed for some reason. The basic premise of the thread asked a very simple question- can 3D technology determine with certainty what starts first in anyone's swing. I don't know that it can given three body planes occupy a common point and each plane can invade the space of another, although my knowledge of the application is beyond limited. In other words just for example, for those saying the swing is from the bottom up and feeling the knee move first can 3D determine if it was in fact the knee moving first, or did a hip movement move the knee, or did a change in tilt affect a hip which affected the knee. I would think any instructor using 3D to help people would want to be certain of what's driving what.

There were some smart ass thread comments as always, but some comments apparently indicating there may be an area of uncertainty in this regard, but it can't be linked anymore as the site took the thread down. So what's up, anyone with real time experience using GEARS know the answer, keeping things simple.

Why would GolfWrx want to remove a topic of study meant to assist golfers? :)
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Re: What Moves First

Postby lagpressure » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:02 pm

Are we talking about forward press? Downswing?

My feeling is that any movement to the right should be initiated basically by the core, chi, torso but for that to happen there must be some pressure
into the ground.

A slight pressure build from the left foot should feel simultaneous with a core rotation that starts to transfer weight over the right leg.
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Re: What Moves First

Postby Range Rat » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:07 pm

The thread started with looking at the downswing and the transition area first, although finding what moves in the back swing could be a discussion too. The thread was pulled, and I cropped a picture which I don't have anymore since a few computer zombies from the planet Zirtoid attacked the other night and it hasn't been fun restoring sanity- thankfully I had backups.

But even on the back swing have a look at this, which basically says that spine tilt can drive pelvic rotation, so is the the back move you describe more a shoulder/core coil, or maybe leans more toward a spine tilt, excuse the pun :lol: So how would 3D differentiate between a spine tilt primary action, or a more lower body/core move.


I guess my point is if an instructor says move the left knee toward the big toe first to start the down swing the first question would be is that move reactive, or active, hopefully reactive, but secondly the torso can also move in such a way to get the knee to move that way, or the hip do accomplish the same thing depending on how secondary tilt is sequenced, early or late.

I'll get a pic up soon that was posted showing an area in transition which was the first point of discussion within the thread. :)
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Re: What Moves First

Postby Range Rat » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:29 pm

Until I find the 3D graph I'm looking for, this sort of captures my direction on this topic, and again, if there are any 3D experts out there feel free to jump in. Here's a video from Shaun Webb ( it was suggested in the thread that was removed to check out his work ) about lower body rotation. The first thing that comes to my mind is the amount of qualitative terms within the short video like "a little bit clearer", "slightly", "kind of", "maybe holding", "don't try to hold back", and several others. At one point Shaun did refer to some actual angle numbers which apparently capture the range of travel within the segment, but isn't that purely retrospective analysis.

Like a post-accident reconstruction, it can show what happened retrospectively but may not be conclusive to the cause short of the obvious, at least that's my understanding. At one point in the video ( 2:58 ) Shaun says "this leg maybe holds for just a second". The natural question might be, does it hold, or not, isn't that what 3D is supposed to be able to tell. I think his GEARS machine might be able to tell the angular travel of "this leg", but did it hold, or not, and in relation to what, is the more important question. That's the part that is confusing, to me anyway. Consider this for a while and I'll try to track down that removed graph. :)
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Re: What Moves First

Postby Range Rat » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:31 pm

This illustration is close to what was on the removed thread over on GolfWrx- What Moves First.

It looks like all parts moving in transition, then what is moving first in the area the arrow is pointing to coming out of transition, although transition is not something we really "come out of" I think. It looks like the components being measured are traveling bout the same rate, but not sure. My question is, if the swing is one non-stop motion how is it possible to determine what moves first since our body is all interconnected.
3d.jpg
3d.jpg (32.54 KiB) Viewed 356 times


So far, the only thing that has moved first is Golfwrx removing the thread first. :lol:
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Re: What Moves First

Postby nfbandon » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:42 pm

Nice bird's eye Rat. Getting that left knee out of the way ASAP is something that has really helped me. Like the model's move there. Also, note how he creates width in the arms in transition.
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Re: What Moves First

Postby twomasters » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:43 am

https://www.instagram.com/p/BcH8fVJHLEG ... hughesgolf

great view of what moves first for the Golden Bear
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