Cross pollination 'tween golf and baseball

Re: Cross pollination 'tween golf and baseball

Postby hawg1 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:15 am

Thanks of askin', Bom

The thumb's role varies, depending on whether we are playing baseball or softball, and whether we are throwing the ball as a position player, or a pitcher. And then it depends on the type of pitch the pitcher is pitching. Yano, sales pitch, boiled pitch... oops, involuntary segue.

If you have a baseball (NOT a softball, a baseball) in your hand, and you are just tossing it around, with no goal other than getting it from here to there, then the thumb doesn't really play much of a role

I had a coach once who lost his thumb to a bandsaw, and he could still hit ya in the numbers 70-80 times in a row.

We used to imitate him, and try to throw without any thumb pressure at all (we called it slinging) when we were just goofin' around.

That said, you can't throw very hard without the thumb, though.

When you are throwing a baseball hard, or throwing a softball AT ALL, the thumb is a balance point. You ARE squeezing hard, but then let the pressure off just before the release, using your inner jock's ability to calculate pressures in that incredible display of signal processing that is the human brain in sport.

In this case, the thumb is there to keep the ball from falling out of your hand.

But all the above becomes moot when your foot touches the pitching rubber.

If you are throwing a forkball (Tom Henke defined the breed) the ball is gripped between the index and bird fingers, and the thumb is jammed into the base of the two fingers at release.

If you are throwing a curve ball, your thumb becomes the focus of the pitch. It switches from bottom to top, switching roles very much like the difference between passive and active hands in ABS. We used to say "put your thumb in the catcher's eye" to describe what the action, but recently I was explaining this, and the concept of snapping your fingers, like you do in time with music, came to mind. Imagine snapping your fingers, but with a baseball between your thumb and bird finger. That's pretty close to what a pitcher feels when he unleashes a knee-buckling curveball.

Fast pitch softball pitching, however, is a whole 'nuther kettle of fish. They can do stuff that fools the catcher, let alone the batter. Because they let the ball go underhanded, and often use contact between their leg (yes, they do use their trochanter to modify the ball's flight path) the can do stuff that appears magic to me.

Hope that helps
hawg1
hawg1
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: Cross pollination 'tween golf and baseball

Postby BomGolf222 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:28 am

Thanks a lot, Hawg1, very informative. So if you're maxing out on a fast ball, the thumb is basically structural? Does it have a specific corresponding finger it works with more than the others? My sense is that it would be the bird finger- they do a lot of power stuff together.
Cheers, man, I really appreciate the info..
BOM
User avatar
BomGolf222
 
Posts: 1793
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:54 pm

Re: Cross pollination 'tween golf and baseball

Postby hawg1 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:30 pm

Bom,
Thank you.
In short, yes, yes, yes, and yes. That's exactly the thumb's role.

Now if we enter the nefarious world of, uhm, a juiced baseball, well, the role of the thumb turns 180.

A spitball relies on a the pitcher squeezing the thumb and bird finger together, much like you do when squeezing a water melon seed across the kitchen (awh, come on, you haven't sat there with your cuz / bro/ goofy uncle in the kitchen / on the deck/ in the den (hardcore, yo) and bet to see who could squirt the seed the furthest?) No, you did.

If you can time the watermelon seed squeeze at just the right amount before the release point, and have the required friction reducer in play, you can generate an unhitable pitch. It will drop, as if off a table. No one, and I mean no one, will hit it.

A pitcher throwing spitballs will own you. Sit down. No, don't argue. You are about to strike out.

That's why spitball's are illegal. They are a cheat that's way past unfair. Just think:an accurate, repeatable, tunable 95 mph forkball, that comes out of the hand just like a fastball, or at worst, a slider.

But anyway, yes. The thumb squeezes on the bird finger. And vice versa.

hawg1
hawg1
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: Cross pollination 'tween golf and baseball

Postby BomGolf222 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:56 am

Hawg,
That's great stuff, man... thanks. It's confirmed something that I've wondered about for a long time but never got around to digging into properly...
Thanks, man...
BOM
User avatar
BomGolf222
 
Posts: 1793
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:54 pm

Re: Cross pollination 'tween golf and baseball

Postby Johnykeith » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:31 pm

I know they're probably staring me in the face on the suppliers sites, but I'm not seeing them. :roll: :roll:
Johnykeith
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:27 pm

Re: Cross pollination 'tween golf and baseball

Postby hawg1 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:15 am

True love; upstaged by a bot. And I thought only stories about MSG were always predicated by a reference to the circus.
hawg1
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: Cross pollination 'tween golf and baseball

Postby Range Rat » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:25 am

Ok here we go. Was reading in the morning paper following the Tiger's loss yesterday about Derek Jeter's new "strideless swing."

Caught my attention, so ventured over to my favorite place- YouTube- and found an interesting video of the process. I think maybe he has been stealing cheese from the site? :lol:
You're ahead of where you were, and behind where you're going.
User avatar
Range Rat
 
Posts: 2316
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:30 am

Re: Cross pollination 'tween golf and baseball

Postby hawg1 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:29 am

Range Rat,
You certainly have an eye for spotting a pivot driven swing.

If that's the swing he's bringin' to the dance this season, take the under on his tater total. But he might hit .363 or better. And the fielding trends for him are gonna shift to the right, a fair bit.

Sumpthin' tells me, though, he'll miss the trigger effect that the step creates and revert.

And yes, it certainly does look like he's been "stealin' the cheese" from this site.

good post, RR.

hawg1
hawg1
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: Cross pollination 'tween golf and baseball

Postby Range Rat » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:16 am

A pretty interesting picture on body and shaft angles- hips, knees, shoulders, arms, bat, etc all on the same high to low arrangement. I mentioned on another thread about feeling the hips not only leading, but post impact remaining behind the shaft and on the same angle all loaded to thrust upward....like one could bump the shaft up with the hips. I reckon' this be where post impact acceleration must occur in order to keep roll-over in jail.
Thome.jpg
Thome.jpg (30.28 KiB) Viewed 2647 times
You're ahead of where you were, and behind where you're going.
User avatar
Range Rat
 
Posts: 2316
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:30 am

Re: Cross pollination 'tween golf and baseball

Postby Range Rat » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:44 am

A three way dressing mirror, an oriental room divider, or a simple baseball backstop.

In either case I think it displays interesting observations about dimensionality and balance. As it sits shown, it has height, width and depth and seems in perfect balance, or at least balancing on its own. However, it we unfold and string sections A-B-C in a straight linear fashion- essentially eliminating depth, the balance now becomes tenuous. Is it the depth that promotes balance more readily.

Just an observation from the wintery north badlands. :)
backstop.jpg
backstop.jpg (36.83 KiB) Viewed 2442 times
You're ahead of where you were, and behind where you're going.
User avatar
Range Rat
 
Posts: 2316
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:30 am

PreviousNext

Return to Public Forum- Concepts in Advanced Ball Striking

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: TheOtherOne and 2 guests

cron