What Do You See (Part 2)

Re: What Do You See (Part 2)

Postby Frozen Divots » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:20 pm

People goat hump because they rotate incorrectly. If you rotate like a crane with the angles people do, you need two rotations. People use one. This causes goat humping and has nothing to do with an autonomic response, like the yips or blinking, etc. It is natural to the structure.

In other words, they set up like a crane and try to do something a crane cannot do. The requirement for true rotation out of this position would be to have a spine like a cat.

You would have to turn like a cat falls- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falling_cat_problem

See the animation in the link above. Can we do this? Well not 99.9999% of the world. So the adjustments made abandon rotation, ruin true coam and you get a throw or tug of war in a circle.
Or you eliminate this with the pivot I prescribe. You also inherit true COAM and true meshing of gears and merging rotations. I'll get to that soon in the force thread.
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Re: What Do You See (Part 2)

Postby Turfrider » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:14 pm

I'm not clear on "crane" pivot.

Who is a good example of a crane pivot?

Who is a good example of the pivot you advocate?
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Re: What Do You See (Part 2)

Postby Range Rat » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:29 pm

Reflex action would be a more correct word at this time instead of autonomic and I agree that goat humping stems from not sequencing properly but it doesn't have to be narrowly defined as poor rotation. It could be pulling the handle down hard from the top- which I guess could be called not rotating properly also- but that sets up a involuntary response situation. Pulling straight down makes the attack too steep and if something is not corrected the club will hit the ground quite fat, so goat humping, or early extension, is a reflexive action creating room between the clubs mass and the ground- and the sequence of creating room can be measured but no one good does that deliberately, it is involuntary because I don't believe the subconscious is too fond of us hurting our wrists or ego.

It's like walking onto a pitched roof of a home without ever doing it before. The moment the first foot hits the roof's pitch the subconscious will compute many variables to do one thing first in rank order fashion seeking balance. The first thing would be the unconscious would compute what angle the spine angle, relative to the pitch/horizon would have to be to prevent falling backward off the ladder. If asked what angle the spine is- is it 47 or 48 degrees to the horizon- we could make a good guess, but some say the subconscious given all the variables it computed in that brief partial second put the spine angle at 47.8256 degrees to the pitch/horizon. That's involuntary and is that precisely accurate given our body to task relationship. I think it's amazing.

I don't quite understand the cat analogy as it relates to the crane pivot. I understand the crane motion but not how the cat fits in. :lol:

I like this involuntary movement picture- our arms move opposite to our fall and is involuntary.
fall.jpg (5.18 KiB) Viewed 2013 times

And I like this involuntary rotational movement based on spine bend.
You're ahead of where you were, and behind where you're going.
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Re: What Do You See (Part 2)

Postby Frozen Divots » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:58 am

Here is a very generic description, I’ll get more descriptive in my Force thread-

Look how a crane moves in space. Does it twist or does it move the ends relative to each other? People put the tailbone into the wrong spot and they are now a crane. Except they don’t know it. So they turn, twist, whatever...not how a crane works.

To continue that, you need the spine of a cat, and two rotations. No chance.

So you must abandon that or you goat hump.

What does a crane do to the wrecking ball? It throws it on tangent away. Where’s the coam there?

A crane doesn’t force the wrecking ball inward, or in any golf desired way. So people need to make a lot of things happen to stop that. Just don’t be a crane to begin with.
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Re: What Do You See (Part 2)

Postby Frozen Divots » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:30 am

One more thing about the cat rotation. We can’t move our spine like that, so we have issues. Now look at the middle point in the cat rotation. Now make that point your hips. That’s a common solution to the problem that we see.

Also why so few can do it, why they have back issues and can’t swing the same way as they age, why they are wild and why have no true COAM. COAM adds speeds but also syncs and is far more accurate.
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Re: What Do You See (Part 2)

Postby k2baloo » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:17 am

Interested to see your swing. I think most visual learners, like myself, need an actual swing to show what you're promoting. DTL and face on would be nice.
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Re: What Do You See (Part 2)

Postby nfbandon » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:48 am


A crane pivot is bipedal. FD is seeking a centered pivot, as I understand it. I think you would see him move toward the target eventually but not until past impact. There certainly would not be a move off the ball and lateral move in transition to get back to where you started.
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Re: What Do You See (Part 2)

Postby stevemcgee99 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:30 am

Range Rat wrote:That is one reason why, I'm quite sure, Jackie Burke Jr. likes to take hold of the club while the shaft is vertical in the air as it makes finding a more square hip orientation easier if one wants. I don't think we always need to, I don't anyway, take hold of the club while in the air if we are familiar with the process of inadvertent opening and guard against it if we want to.

I started doing that after watching the video. Then I see myself in my recent videos and I'm unconsciously re-adjusting my grip at address immediately prior to the backswing. I guess I'm not interested in the hip thing? Or bad habit creeping in?

So far I prefer to not consciously think about my grip. Listening to ravens, ducks, geese and inconsiderate people talking about college sports is distracting enough.
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Re: What Do You See (Part 2)

Postby Frozen Divots » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:51 am

What I am trying to do is move at angle to lead side that happens in rotation. Never a push, etc.

I do go forward but only because of rotation. Lower torque error and now I can pressure the club the correct way and not worry about a slot, only the merge. Merge is the slot.

The angle of tailbone translational motion is the coam. We aren’t spheres so the coam is different, thankfully.
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