Insight - Keeping hands out in front (?)

Re: Insight - Keeping hands out in front (?)

Postby nfbandon » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:14 am

I really don't get the early acceleration comments on Johnny. He is smooth in transition and his speed comes later. His shoulders are level, right arm bent and it stays that way well past impact.

Here is another of his students for Asia. A young pro. More traditional in look. Is this garbage also?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BVDNFSolMfU ... eryellsdoh
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Re: Insight - Keeping hands out in front (?)

Postby lagpressure » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:40 am

Post his swing again and show me the lateral movement. I don't see it.
His shoulders unwind right from the top, way out of sequence from what we see from Snead, Di Vicenzo, Hogan, etc.

When you unwind that quickly, not much left left post impact, and we see the vapor trail of that with the shaft flipping up because the left shoulder can't
keep ahead of the clubhead.
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Re: Insight - Keeping hands out in front (?)

Postby lagpressure » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:44 am

Snead Weight Transfer.jpg
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I like to look at the shin of the left leg. It's actually leaning toward the target at P3. That's big lateral move stuff.
I wish I had a lot more of that in my swing. You see that in spades with Hogan, Knudson, Miller.
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Re: Insight - Keeping hands out in front (?)

Postby lagpressure » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:57 am

111.jpg
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Hard to find straight on caddy views of Hogan with an iron, but this is perfect example to show how out of sequence
the student is. Both have their left arm parallel to the ground on the downswing. Look how rushed the young player is
compared to Hogan with his shoulder rotation. It's not wine tasting.
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Re: Insight - Keeping hands out in front (?)

Postby Range Rat » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:02 pm

When I saw the picture of JR's shaft going vertical in the backswing, that very moment John Redman flashed across my rat brain in a bolt of furry awareness. John Redman was big on what he called "standing the club up" in the back swing so that, along with perhaps softer hands, would lay the club off, slot it, in the down move. However, JR's trail foot heel is flopping outward into the finish and RDV's trail foot goes backward first, just like Brad and Lag point out. JR is not coming from as deep behind him so maybe not as much traction is needed because he went vertical more than RDV, who was more inward. Inward creates massive need for ground traction to reverse the process, vertical not so much.

That's my take and I'm sticking to it. By the way, one thing about ABS is every so often Lag will screw up big time and throw down a hidden nugget.
I'm talking about flattening the shaft below plane and keeping the shaft below the shoulder line into the downswing.
You're ahead of where you were, and behind where you're going.
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Re: Insight - Keeping hands out in front (?)

Postby lagpressure » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:11 pm

So while the student tries to win the race from the top to impact... probably with the same madness that people argue about "once the ball has left the club it doesn't matter"
Hogan wins the race by keeping the left shoulder accelerating at a much quicker pace through the strike where it counts. His shaft doesn't flip early like the student because he DELAYS the rotation for much later in the swing. This moves the peak acceleration point way forward in the path of the swing which should be striving to hold shaft flex into impact... something the student has no chance of doing with such an early firing of the shoulders....(unless he severely limits wristcock range of motion and does a stiff arm sweep at it which would be a huge power loss)

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Re: Insight - Keeping hands out in front (?)

Postby lagpressure » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:17 pm

Grady,

But back to your point of injuries and pain, you are wise to explore options than can keep you out enjoying the game, hitting balls etc.
Do you think that trying to swing violently like a strong 24 year old kid is the correct model? Or would something more like Fred Couples be a better model for an painful body?
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Re: Insight - Keeping hands out in front (?)

Postby nfbandon » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:18 pm

Here is a face on of the other pro.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BaOxvlmFjp2 ... gswingtips

As far as Johnny, yes he opens his shoulders sooner than Hogan, but they are open about the same at impact. Hogan had the fastest pivot of all time. This is a different way of doing it, but it isn't early acceleration and spent at the ball. Not at all. You might see Palmer as similar in shoulder sequence.



Snead somewhere between the two.



Most great ballstrikers are "flipped" by that point. The Snead swing posted about has a much sooner "flip." Of course, we don't know what shot they are hitting.

There is on real point to this. You are viewing everything through your rigid view of what the swing should be. I see Johnny and the Asian pro having very good swings. Much of the things you teach are there...level shoulder, right leg pressure, tighter through impact...just a little different way of getting there.

As far as swinging like Johnny...no can't do that...but the general principles seem to be easier on my body.
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Re: Insight - Keeping hands out in front (?)

Postby k2baloo » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:25 pm

nfbandon wrote:I really don't get the early acceleration comments on Johnny. He is smooth in transition and his speed comes later. His shoulders are level, right arm bent and it stays that way well past impact.

Here is another of his students for Asia. A young pro. More traditional in look. Is this garbage also?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BVDNFSolMfU ... eryellsdoh


Swing looks good to me. I'd trade him :lol:
In all seriousness, I wouldn't trade anyone. Owning your action and working on it is a joy, no matter how crappy it is. I do like this guy's swing though. Any face on and/or full speed shots of him?
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Re: Insight - Keeping hands out in front (?)

Postby lagpressure » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:33 pm

I'll stay rigid in my teaching. No problem with that.
I have no interest in the modern game, 350 yard drives with 130 mph swing speeds that over accelerate, can't hold shaft flex and everyone is swinging super lightweight clubs
chasing the dragon.

The game has changed as drastically as softball is to baseball. Two different games. Two different methods of swinging.. one for maximizing velocity at any cost, the other for
bringing more mass with slower acceleration rates into impact that allow the player to properly feel the club and control the golf ball. I'm just not often impressed by the modern players or the way the courses and game in general is set up. Dumbed down, over simplified, less articulation and much less interesting and totally out of proportion.

My views I know are wildly unpopular. But I prefer the old game, steel spikes so my right foot doesn't slip, flat swings that can properly leverage the torso rotation, heavier clubs that bring more force and feel into impact. Stiffer shafts that are set up based upon deflection rates and not frequency matching. Flatter lie angles that reign in the left vector of possibilities so players don't miss long and left. I like walking the course, not riding in a cart for better exercise and the proper time to think about my next move. I even prefer the high spinning rubber balata golf balls the everyone else fears because I like being able to shape the ball without limitations.

I'm getting older and grumpier every day, every year with no end in sight!
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