The Ben Hogan Golf Swing

Re: The Ben Hogan Golf Swing

Postby lagpressure » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:32 pm

In the case of Hogan's grip, it was fairly neutral. It was not as weak with the right hand as most believe or those who just look at the pictures in 5 Lessons.
It wasn't crosshanded, or a baseball grip, nor interlocked. Basic Vardon grip. I would call this sub critical.... because I think he could have used a variety of slight variations and still hit the other critical elements. He gripped the club more in the fingers than the palms. A study of his callouses would show where his pressure points where, but most of that would be a vapor trail of the pressures created while swinging the club.

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As far as his set up, I feel a wider stance would be critical. The rest I might rank as important, but not critical to his swing. I say this because one could set up exactly like Ben Hogan and it would not guarantee anything. The first move could be a sway, lift, bob, poor shoulder rotation, shaft could go in any direction etc. Helpful, sure, but not critical. Sub critical at best.

He did have some spin tilt, arms hanging straight down, not hunched over, a bit more weight over his right leg, hands center, left arm straight. Typical stuff.

If anything about his set up I would view as critical it would be a wider stance to support his quick tempo and lateral weight transfer.

Wide Stance Critical
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Re: The Ben Hogan Golf Swing

Postby lagpressure » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:48 pm

The next critical action is a quick tempo golf swing. This can't be understated because it sets up the forces and pressures in the swing, both on the way back and the way down.

The shoulder rotation is the engine and must be full and it drives the backswing engine. The arms and hands have a critical path to follow as well, but this is one complete motion that takes the club from address to the top of the swing and guides it right into the slot ready for transition. There is a right way to do this and it certainly could be taught.

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Re: The Ben Hogan Golf Swing

Postby lagpressure » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:52 pm

Hogan then slotted the club and there is a way that he did this with a combination of his backswing and how he transferred weight to initiate his downswing. This caused the shaft to flatten or shallow through transition. We call this "table topping" at ABS.

Two extremely critical elements of Hogan's golf swing.

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Re: The Ben Hogan Golf Swing

Postby lagpressure » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:57 pm

Hogan's method of weight transfer was very unique, AND very critical to his golf swing. The backswing can be taught, and so can this method of weight transfer. It's tricky, but not as difficult as it might seem with the proper instruction.

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Re: The Ben Hogan Golf Swing

Postby lagpressure » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:01 pm

Hogan worked the club down to what we call the 4:30 line. The shaft working at right angles to the spine. The slotting, the weight transfer got the shaft flattening quickly so he could swing with a quick tempo and leverage the club at right angles to his rotating torso. Absolutely critical to his technique.
If your shaft is steep on the downswing, you are off the Hogan track.... derailed early.
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Re: The Ben Hogan Golf Swing

Postby lagpressure » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:09 pm

Hogan worked the shaft from the 4:30 line through impact and the shaft exited left around the body. Hands low, left and around. His pivot, torso, hips shoulders acceleration through the strike. There was no stalling of anything like we see in modern players who are just hitting with detached arms. Knudson described it simply as "from right hip pocket to left hip pocket". When done correctly, this keeps the clubface more stable and looking at the target much longer than a hand or arm through release. Hogan's right arm acts like a frozen pipe with little or no straighten of the right elbow through the strike.

Path of the hands through the strike, critical, frozen right arm critical.

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Re: The Ben Hogan Golf Swing

Postby lagpressure » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:19 pm

From the post impact, low, left and around to finish.... Hogan's left shoulder outraces his hands keeping pressure on the golf club longer than anyone who ever played the game (that I have seen). Absolutely critical to his swing.

The distinction must be made that this extension we see is from the low, left and around at P4 (forth parallel of the clubshaft) to finish. This is NOT the VJ Singh extension from a flipped over clubface, right arm- thrown out extension at P4.... or what we call a "swinger's release".

Again, this can be taught from an intention point of view, and with work, anyone could improve their PIPT or post impact pivot thrust. This in my opinion is the most impressive and important critical dynamic in Ben Hogan's golf swing.

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Re: The Ben Hogan Golf Swing

Postby lagpressure » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:29 pm

So here is a basic laundry list of THE OBJECTIVE CRITICAL ELEMENTS of Ben Hogan's full golf swing.

1. Flat, heavy, stiff clubs with no offset.
2. A quick tempo golf swing.
3. Backswing that moves with the correct path and intention of slotting the club with a FULL shoulder rotation. Left arm on shoulder line at top.
4. The transitional shallowing of the clubshaft. The GOD MOVE.
5. Weight transferring starts the downswing... delaying the opening and rotation of the torso, hips, shoulders.
6. Shaft works down from the slot to the 4:30 line, shaft intersecting the Chi center.
7. Shaft works through the strike from right to left hip pocket. Low, left and around.
8. Right arm near frozen through the strike from P3 to P4.
9. Hips, shoulders, torso accelerate through the strike... there is no stalling going on at all.
10. Shaft works high and extended into finish from low, left and around at P4, not out, flipped and rolled at P4. Left shoulder outracing the hands into finish PV5.

All of this is geared toward holding shaft flex through the strike, the primary hitters objective.
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Re: The Ben Hogan Golf Swing

Postby LesMurray » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:22 pm

k2baloo wrote:- On the other end, you rip open the swing and learn all there is to know. You DIY from the foundation up - the swing, the clubs, the mental, you learn it all from scratch. You don't have a coach because you know you'll try something new in 2 weeks anyways and you won't do their drills either. This takes a lot of time because when you start you'll know next to nothing, you'll make loads of mistakes, you'll experiment a lot, and you'll waste time and money on projects and ideas that don't improve your game. You'll regress often.


I get at what you are saying here K2. Having coaching does help you get better than going it alone. However, I would not use the term quickly when you speak of coaching. The thing a coach can't tell you is what you feel. Everyone feels the swing differently. The swing is such an experiential thing. Even with John's ABS program and his guidance (plus Bradley's too) it has taken me a long time to unlearn my previous swing and change over to ABS. And I would not even say that I am there yet with the ABS swing. So many things I didn't even know I was doing differently than ABS that only get discovered when "digging it out of the dirt". Not to say that the ABS method couldn't be picked up quicker for someone else, but at least for me it has been a long journey that has farther to go. And, of course, are we every really done learning?

Personally, I don't see how an adult could undertake learning the swing without guidance. We learn so much differently than children, who are great imitators. That is why I chose the ABS program. I like that the drills get you pointed in the right direction and then when you "strike a nugget" it seems like your body was just waiting for you to make that discovery. Things suddenly click somewhat as your muscles enter familiar territory and you make quick progress. Then it's on to the next plateau waiting for the next discovery. A journey of mastery.

As with anything worth doing in life, finding the right mentor to learn from is very important for success. And I want my mentors to be as successful as possible so that I end up at the right destination. Take advice on the range from a 20 handicapper and you end up with a 20 handicap swing. Same thing with a local range pro - you will end up with a swing of a local range pro. This is the nice thing about ABS - John and Bradley Hughes have competed as professionals on some of the best tours in the world and won. You get to hear advice from teachers who have won internationally against world class competition. If I can learn at least half their knowledge that is a lot farther along than I think I would ever get just working it out on my own. Like you said K2, it depends on your goals as to how much you are willing to invest in your golf swing. If you really want to compete at the highest levels, then you will seek out mentors who have achieved success at that level. Whether talking golf, business, education, life - there are people who have walked the trail and you can follow their footsteps and avoid their mistakes and get the opportunity to make a whole new set of mistakes that will then get passed on to your proteges.
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Re: The Ben Hogan Golf Swing

Postby Hogansearcher » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:09 pm

Lag,
I read Mike Maves book and thought it was very informative. I remember Mike mentioning you in his book. Here, Wayne DeFrancesco did analyze Mike's swing based upon his take on Mr Hogan's swing. Any thoughts?

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