Masters 2019...

Re: Masters 2019...

Postby Iron Byron » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:23 pm

Hey guys,

Still lurking after all these years... couple of comments...

Fred Ridley, Masters Chairman, said at the annual press conference they are waiting to consider lengthening 13 until the USGA/R&A have made a decision on ball distances. Not sure why the media isn't discussing this? He clearly made it sound like there is something going on behind the scenes regarding ball distance. Additionally, he also stated there might someday be a Masters-only golf ball if something isn't done.

Also, Tiger said in his press conference that when recovering from back surgery he thought that if that fixed his back he could still play because his "hands" were still strong! That really got me thinking about all that we have learned from this site and especially Mod 1 and of course Ben Hogan.
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Re: Masters 2019...

Postby Wknhacker » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:48 am

Iron Byron wrote:Fred Ridley, Masters Chairman, said at the annual press conference they are waiting to consider lengthening 13 until the USGA/R&A have made a decision on ball distances. Not sure why the media isn't discussing this? He clearly made it sound like there is something going on behind the scenes regarding ball distance. Additionally, he also stated there might someday be a Masters-only golf ball if something isn't done.


I for one would love to see them standardize the ball. It's really ridiculous to see the bomb and gougers bully the golf courses on the PGA tour almost every weekend. It makes for boring and uninteresting golf lacking all the nuances and strategy of the classic game.

I also expect that if the USGA, or Augusta, makes this move the equipment manufacturers will put up fierce resistance (ie. lawsuits). Let's see how this eventually unfolds.

Lag, I absolutely agree about the 5 iron being a mid iron. In super golf however it's considered a long iron. And it was disconcerting to watch all the young guys missing that 5th hole green approach with their 5 irons. I would imagine in your day, and in classic golf, that would have been a routine shot.
"I have a tip that can take five strokes off anyone's golf game: it's called an eraser." - Arnold Palmer
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Re: Masters 2019...

Postby k2baloo » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:49 am

Hitting a 'routine' five iron 50 years ago from 170 is not the same as hitting a 5 iron today from 220. In my experience, it's much, much easier even when I've played balata. There's no technology that makes hitting a green from 220 easy. You have to remember the loft and length of a modern five iron is more like a 1950's 3 iron. This is why my modern set stops at 4 iron and my vintage at 2 iron (only 1 degree loft difference, same length)...

You can't complain about long clubs with crazy lofts on one hand and then expect guys to hit the same NUMBER club into greens. It's terribly flawed.
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Re: Masters 2019...

Postby Wknhacker » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:52 am

Fair point there K2 in regards to the loft difference between modern and vintage clubs. But the crazy thing is that a lot of the modern younger players have problems hitting their scoring clubs into these greens. And they don't need to either since the rough is so short or even non existent. They know they can get up and down if they miss the greens. The other thing to consider as well is that more and more modern pros are using hybrids instead of long irons. They can launch it a mile in the air with the modern hybrids. The majority of the next generation of golfers will never put 2, 3, and 4 irons in the bag. It's all high launching hot faced driving irons and hybrids.

Molinari is considered a bit of an oddity in the modern game because he's a short hitter but an accurate striker. He's one of the few guys who's been able to buck the trend of the bomb and gouge game and have success notwithstanding he's short off the tee because he relies so much on the accuracy of his ball striking. Though his mistake at 12 on Sunday was surprising given that the miss on that hole is long and he was coasting with the lead.
"I have a tip that can take five strokes off anyone's golf game: it's called an eraser." - Arnold Palmer
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Re: Masters 2019...

Postby LesMurray » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:23 pm

There was a FB post in the Persimmon Society page about Nicklaus and Player complaining about the ball last week. I've been hearing about Nicklaus talk about the ball since 1990 but it is interesting to hear Player make the complaint.

The best point of that post was Nicklaus saying that from 1950-something until 1990 the ball only gained 5 yards and in the last 30 years it has gained 15. You combine this along with hot-faced drivers and irons and it's no wonder guys are driving over 300 yards and hitting modern 5 irons 200 yards.

Woods was driving the ball pretty decently but he was still in the trees several times on Sunday. I watched Mickelson on Friday and it seemed every other drive he was hitting from the rough or the trees. Augusta has never been a very penal course for hitting wayward drives but I do remember that being in the trees was usually a bogey back in the day.
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Re: Masters 2019...

Postby gir » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:14 pm

Really good to get all the abs thoughts about this years Masters. I was definitely wanting to see your thoughts lagpressure after that one. Really good to see Tiger pull that one off and great for the game of golf. Very clean round from Mr Woods on the back 9..There was the missed fairway on I want to say 12, but it left a relatively clean line into the green. That was about the wildest shot I saw on the back nine from Tiger. Everything else was very clean. Nothing crazy. No fancy highlight reel shots, or short game wizardry. Just fairways and greens, let everyone else beat themselves... Looking forward to a few more!

And definitely an insightful and affirming comment about the hands there Iron byron, for all those who have done a bit of module work..
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Re: Masters 2019...

Postby k2baloo » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:16 am

https://www.golf.com/gear/irons/2019/04/17/tiger-woods-irons-masters-2019/

Comparison of Wood's approach shots on Sunday of 97 with Sunday this year.
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Re: Masters 2019...

Postby lagpressure » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:08 pm

The real issue on these great classic tracks is the trajectory of the ball coming into the greens.
I don't really care what the # on the iron is... what I see is the huge disparity in the trajectory.
No one talks about this, but it's the most important issue when considering how these courses are set up
and trying to hold up to the modern gear. It's not working.

If you look back in time, holes 10, 11, 13 and 15 would be having the ball coming in much lower... and the greens were designed accordingly.
Narrow and deep for 10 and 11 often with 3 and 4 irons being hit into them... par 4's and the ball was basically skipped in... or bounced in.

The risk on the 5 pars with the lower trajectory approaches was significant because the greens were not deep, but shallow in depth. Very scary stuff
going at those par 5's with a long iron where you can't skip it in there because of the water in front. Those are the obvious holes, but this is actually
a factor on nearly every hole at Augusta. The course was never intended to be a dart board.... with the ball coming in so high.

Now if you could figure out how to do this... bring it in high... like Nicklaus did, then that is fine as long as it is done through technique. No one else could do
what Jack did... he was very special and gained an advantage over the others particularly in Majors that often had firmer greens. Jack is still the greatest player with the greatest record in majors. Tiger may pass Jack, but unless Tiger wins 25 majors, anything close I would still argue Jack's record is most impressive due to the stacked Hall of Fame players Nicklaus had to encounter throughout his career.

Hogan essentially only played 2 majors a year. He rarely played the PGA because it was a match play event and Hogan didn't believe in that... and of course The Open (British) he only went once.

It's all interesting debate and conversation, but I feel Jack is the greatest in the classic game, Tiger hands down the greatest in Super Golf, and Gary Player the greatest in global events. Hogan the greatest if you look at efficiency or major wins "batting average".
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Re: Masters 2019...

Postby LesMurray » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:16 am

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Re: Masters 2019...

Postby lagpressure » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:53 pm

This has been my point for over a decade now..
Bradley has played in The Masters and knows this as a player...

In all these arguments, rebuttals, provocative thoughts and insights and pursuit of a solution- there is one main argument that tends to be lost.
How golf courses were designed for not only certain clubs and shot shapes but for how they were designed for certain trajectories.
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