WHAT BALL TO PLAY WITH PERSIMMONS???

Re: WHAT BALL TO PLAY WITH PERSIMMONS???

Postby lagpressure » Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:48 pm

The thing about the old balatas was how they played with the short irons. I used to be able to draw a 9 iron or even a wedge, have it hit the green and jump left and spin back. You could really work a ball into a tucked pin. I feel paralyzed with the modern balls on short or even mid iron play. The modern balls I can curve up to the apex, but they then fall straight down.. so any shot shaping is really just a waste of time. It stifles my thought process because I used to think all the way down into the green and what the ball was going to do once it hit the green. No one was better at this than Trevino. With smaller greens, it was really critical to work the ball into tucked pins. With longer irons, your basically just trying to get the ball onto the green. We could get so much more spin on the ball with a 2 or 3 iron than today, so there was a good chance to hold a green or have the ball come down softer than the low spin rock landing of today's ball. Now, they have made adjustments in the clubfaces with milled faces etc... but it doesn't solve the issue of side spin.

A good striker welcomes sidespin because they are good enough to control it. A bad striker, sidespin is a nightmare because it magnifies the error of poor strikes. This is why the young pros today have no fear of swinging for the fences with their drivers. The head is huge and the ball doesn't side spin much... so it doesn't go nearly as far offline as a balata would. This is a huge factor that is not talked about much. In the balata era, the good players used the most sensitive high spinning ball they could find. Now, nobody wants that because it would expose how poor the striking is.

It's really taken a lot of the fun out of the game. The old ball used to curve all the way down to the ground from the apex.
It would actually angle into the green then bounce further in that direction. You would hit the knock down shot to get it to take two big bounces and run into the green before checking up on the third landing. That was really fun stuff. Then you could get it to skip either way... or you could draw or fade it into the green from a higher trajectory and back it up into a tucked pin. That's the fun stuff that used to await your advancing skillset. The game just kept opening up more and more with deeper articulation. That's why the experienced player really had an edge over youth and raw power. You didn't see teenagers winning tour events etc... 13 years olds playing in the Masters etc... it just took more time than that to acquire the skills to compete at the top level. Now it's been dumbed down so that anyone who can drive it 320, wedge, get up and down and putt can win anything. It's really a shame and the game to me today is a total bore.

The bottom line is that the great balata balls of the past really separated the good from average, the greats from the good.
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Re: WHAT BALL TO PLAY WITH PERSIMMONS???

Postby lagpressure » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:17 pm

11.jpg
11.jpg (96.16 KiB) Viewed 1413 times


We used to think like this, the white line or balata line. It's an entirely different way of thinking about the shot... and a lot more fun for sure.

Now I feel like playing the EXACT same shot, and I get the yellow line result. I always like to work the ball, and it's just unnatural to have to think straight at the pin. So, yes I am on the green, but the ball is not doing what I want it to.. what it did all the while I was learning the game and busting my ass to learn shape control. I had a huge advantage over "less than" ball strikers.

For example, if I hit this shot a bit heavy for whatever reason, I am on the front middle of the green. But the guy going for the pin with a balata hits heavy he is fried in the bunker. There was just no reason to take it straight over a bunker if you didn't need to.

If the pin was cut left as in this illustration, but the green sloped hard right to left, I might start the ball at the right edge of the left bunker, cut it a bit, then let the ball land soft onto the green and then let it take the slope and work down toward the pin. If I hit the draw in with that green shape, it would hit and end up long left. I don't see any of this kind of thinking going on now, not even on tour. It's a laser yardage to the pin, pull the club and hit to a straight point. BORING!
And it doesn't really work that well, just watch pro golf. The ball striking is crap from the old perspective. It's just too mechanical now, and until things change, we won't see the next "Hogan" any time soon. The art of masterful shotmaking is gone.
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Re: WHAT BALL TO PLAY WITH PERSIMMONS???

Postby LesMurray » Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:40 pm

Lookie at what I found in my bucket at the driving range tonight :D

Image

Image
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Re: WHAT BALL TO PLAY WITH PERSIMMONS???

Postby LesMurray » Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:16 am

LesMurray wrote:Lookie at what I found in my bucket at the driving range tonight :D

Image

Image


Played the Titelist Pro 90 for 9 holes over the weekend. I only lost about 5-10 yards on distance over a newer Pro V1. It was also softer on putts and spinnier, but not as much as one would think. My playing partners kept asking me if some of my hits were solid because the sounds was much more muted than a modern ball. I was playing with my '57 staff blades and '53 Tommy Armour persimmons.
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Re: WHAT BALL TO PLAY WITH PERSIMMONS???

Postby stevemcgee99 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:43 pm

^^ That sounds like a dream.

What was your putter?
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Re: WHAT BALL TO PLAY WITH PERSIMMONS???

Postby LesMurray » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:23 am

stevemcgee99 wrote:^^ That sounds like a dream.

What was your putter?


I've got an old Bullseye Flange.
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Re: WHAT BALL TO PLAY WITH PERSIMMONS???

Postby k2baloo » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:26 pm

May go to NXT Tours this year. I like that ball for some reason... Also very curious about the Kirkland signature balls. May go that direction, but I'm not sure yet.
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Re: WHAT BALL TO PLAY WITH PERSIMMONS???

Postby Mashie72 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:51 am

"The secret is on the deck"
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Re: WHAT BALL TO PLAY WITH PERSIMMONS???

Postby k2baloo » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:11 am

Mashie72 wrote:Rickie getting it done with a Pro V

https://twitter.com/CH3golf/status/8196 ... 76/video/1


I saw that, interesting how high the smash factor was. What's the margin of error on Trackman measurements?

Anyway, I bought a box of Callaway SuperHot 55s to try out. They're a low compression, 3-piece, that sits between the SuperSoft and the Chrome Soft in Callaway's line. I'm either going to game these or KSigs, but I'm not sure if the shortgame spin (ksigs) or soft feel (55s) is more important.
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