Grips and Shafts

Grips and Shafts

Postby bullrambler » Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:28 am

Greetings ABS-ers. I'm hailing from north of Toronto, Ontario and our season is shorter then those of you who reside in more temperate climates further south in the USA or other temperate parts around the globe.

I am starting this thread as it is related to a very long thread on ABS where Shafts and Grips were asked about, and may not be seen because it's so far into the thread.

Anyways I have comments on stiff, heavy and flat that many of you may have already confirmed for yourselves, and I appreciate all the comments that are shared on the ABS site.

I am new to real flat irons and I can confirm that it works...! No news there "eh"...! Or "Huh" in more southerly parts.

Bigger grips - I have always preferred them and have played larger grips for a long time. There is no issues in using larger grips and I have found that midsize with two wraps is good for me. I also have a set with oversize tour wraps and they are not a problem either. I wear an XL glove size so that is my quantifier on the size that I use. Where they can help an ABS-er is that they may be considered a type of back weight as the club will generally Swing Weight lighter on the scale - and they will add to the total weight of the club. The set that I recently ABS-ed are a set of Vintage MacGregor M-85 irons. With my midsize grips they came out to between D-8 and E-2. Having hit them I can say that this may be a tad heavier then Lags standard specs but they are not too far off the mark. The Irons that were D8 and D9 I brought them up to E with a bit of added lead tape - so now all the irons SW between E and E-2. If I wanted to "cheat" them down to a D-8 or less I would use and oversize grip, which is heavier them a midsize grip. It's possible that this very well could be beneficial, or I may find out that this alteration might take me past the point of deminishing returns. But it could be done, and does remain an option.

If in your case you have - say a medium size hand it may be too much grip size for someone in this category. Then again doing one club with a miszie or an oversize grip may be a good exercise in eliminating this option out of one's arsenal. Clearly it will Swing Weight lighter but it will increase the overall weight of the club. Keep in mind many outstanding golfers in the past did NOT have a problem with larger grip size and heavier Swing Weights. Via More Norman at E-3.

Shafts - For me flex (or lack of it) is an important consideration for what feels good for me. What I have discovered over a variety of sets over the years is that in many cases the flex in an iron set can "run out of gas" at the 6 iron. And what I am implying is that the 5, 4, 3, 2. can fell whippier in these irons with the standard set-up of 1/2 inch increments with Dynamics. So I can confirm that building an ABS set with stiffer shafts on these particular irons can have it's advantages. Lag has indicated that he has done this and I can appreciate why this was done.
For decades OEM golf club manufacturers have used the Dynamic shaft (and a few other creations) and stepped them in a particular way to maintain a projected flex dispersion among the set of irons. In my humble experience the 5,4, 3 (and sometimes even the 6 iron) have always felt softer to me, and they flex too much to provide the sensation that they are flexing like the shorter irons. So to make the longer irons feel like they are flexing like the shorter irons (7, 8, 9 , PW) I will have to do some shaft changes in a future set of ABS irons. It won't likely be my Vintage M-85 irons but may be done in another set of Hogan Bounce +1 irons that I've got the pins out of - but I'm still trying to get the shafts out of the heads. When I accomplish this, I will post how the stiffer long irons turned out; in comparison to the shorter irons. I'm expecting some decent results so stayed tuned, and I'll do this sometime over the summer.

If anyone has already tried this, I invite you to provide your comments.
"It clobbering Time"
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Re: Grips and Shafts

Postby lagpressure » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:03 am

Welcome, and thanks for the well written post.

There is a lot of personal preference when setting up your playing sticks. Sounds like you are on the right track.
I have never preferred thin grips, but don't like them too large either. I usually use two to three tape wraps depending upon the grip.

My favorite grips are the Crown Classic Cords (long out of print) with the Red threads in them. I like a full cord with lots of roughness in the cord. More texture helps my hands make a solid contact on the club. For the synthetics, the Mint grips are a quality option.

I DON'T like any kind of soft grips, because I don't want the club being able to twist on off centered hits due to a weakening of the material between my hands and the shaft. I know that soft cushy grips may feel nice, but I would highly recommend staying away from such grips.

Leather grips are nice as long as they remain tacky and don't get dry and slick. There are some good products like Lexol to help restore older leather grips and help rehydrate them.

Moe used to use a kind of wrap on that he would take on and off and space the wraps about a 1/4 inch apart so that the skin on his hands would sink into the cracks. The edges of the cords were sharper, not rounded off. He liked those because he could use them with bare hands in the rain or in high humidity. I thought those were great, but I have never seen them anywhere other than on Moe's clubs.

I agree on the shaft stepping. I like them firmer in the long irons and a bit looser in the short irons. The looser the shaft, the easier it is to shape the ball around. I typically would prefer to shape the ball more with the short irons and less with my long irons and driver. The longer clubs will shape enough as needed... but with today's horrible plastic golf balls, I think it helps to be able to shape the ball a bit more in the shorter clubs. My brain still thinks and sees shots in my minds eye as if I were still playing in the balata age.

We are working on getting a new golf ball made designed for blades and persimmon players.. or players who would like a higher spin rate. We already have a physical prototype made that is significantly better than anything currently on the market, but I still feel there is room for improvement.
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Re: Grips and Shafts

Postby LesMurray » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:30 am

Speaking of golf balls - look what I found on the course the other day

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Grips and Shafts

Postby mrlek » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:47 am

Pretty sure there is no hard and fast rule for grip size. My hands would fit XL glove but I hate using midsize grips, constantly re-gripping and feels like a weaker setup to me. Its all personal obviously.

Some of the newer grips are way too spongy and loose as Lag mentions. Possibly this feel works in combination with titanium woods / cavity backs but its awful with blades. Again, others may prefer them !
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Re: Grips and Shafts

Postby LesMurray » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:33 pm

I played both those balls over the weekend. I miss using a balata ball. Using my '69 MacGregors I can't generate enough spin with the modern ball to stop it on the greens. But, the balata would stop pretty quickly and in many cases will back up. I didn't notice much loss of distance, maybe 5 yards. It was tougher than I thought it would be as I was able to play it for the last 9 holes without much issue.
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Re: Grips and Shafts

Postby bullrambler » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:07 pm

Great replies and I would like to propose a way to get the shafts in the irons set up. Maybe S-400 in the wedges, 9 and 8 irons. Then the X shaft in 7, 6, 5, and tipped X in the 4, 3, and 2 iron. If that is the way to do it, or if there is a slightly different variation please advise. I always feel like the the 7 iron and longer clubs tend to run out of gas and I get the sense that I need something slightly stiffer.
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Re: Grips and Shafts

Postby bullrambler » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:15 am

lagpressure wrote:Welcome, and thanks for the well written post.


We are working on getting a new golf ball made designed for blades and persimmon players.. or players who would like a higher spin rate. We already have a physical prototype made that is significantly better than anything currently on the market, but I still feel there is room for improvement.


Good news LAG to read about the development of a new golf ball for the forged and wood woods, and I can't wait to see how they perform when they come out... I've found in the Pro V line that the 90 compression balls seem to be a bit better then the 100 compressions. But I'd return to something like the older balata balls. I used to use the Maxfli balata's far more often them the Titleist Balata balls. In my experience I found that the Maxfli balata ball stayed rounder for a bit longer then the Titleist balata.

And my ole saying was: If there good enough for Jack then there good enough for me...
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Re: Grips and Shafts

Postby lagpressure » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:02 pm

fulcrum.jpg
fulcrum.jpg (57.89 KiB) Viewed 5054 times


shaft deflection
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Re: Grips and Shafts

Postby bullrambler » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:16 pm

How about an explanation for the deflection table...?
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Re: Grips and Shafts

Postby lagpressure » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:36 pm

Just a method to compare the deflection rate of multiple shafts.

A properly set up set will have the same rate of deflection from one club to another.
I use an 8 pound weight.
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