Driver vs driver

Re: Driver vs driver

Postby norcalvol » Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:20 pm

For me it is all about what Helter Skelter said... light gear makes it to easy to over accelerate. So you find a way to make it heavy to minimize that and not to cause other problems. Trial and error.
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Re: Driver vs driver

Postby Stu Carlburger » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:33 am

I agree NorCal!

Further thoughts on driver weight. Not only does a heavier driver prevent overacceloration, but to me, bringing more mass to the into the impact equation is a great way to add distance without having to increase clubhead speed. Now, one could argue that to maintain clubhead speed with a heavier club means you've exerted more effort. While true, I find that as long as I stay focused on good sequencing and making a precise strike, it's easy to accomplish. Conversely, when I try to "swing faster" I tend to get out of sequence and spray the ball.

As NorCal said, it's trial and error to find what works and feels best most consistently.

In that same vein, I'm currently building a set of vintage Dunlop MaxFli blades (thanks Ded!) and I'm really enjoying playing around with the weight, and more specifically, the balance point. I've been pouring over club building blogs and found some great stuff concerning how BP effects ball flight, and how (not surprisingly) the OEM's get it backward. Similar to what Lag says about how the OEM's make the long irons with softer shafts and short irons with stiffer shafts, they get the BP's wrong too.

Long irons have relatively light heads (as compared to short irons) and longer shafts, thus bringing the BP up toward the handle. The higher the BP, the lower the flight and spin -- the problem is, long irons already produce lower flight and spin due to their relative lack of loft and flatter lie/swing place. The opposite is true of the short irons -- low BP adds to higher flight and spin, but short irons already produce relatively high flight and spin due to loft and lie/plane. So, average golf golfer is left with long irons he cannot get up off the ground -- hybrid sales? -- and short irons he hits a mile into the air with too much spin to control distance.

When a BP pattern like this is charted from short irons to long it slopes up, while what I'm experimenting with is creating a straight line BP pattern with no slope. This then will bring the short iron BP up, and the long iron BP down -- hopefully producing higher trajectory, softer landing long irons, and more penetrating, less spinning short irons.

To do this I started in the middle of the set with the 6i, put 10g of tungsten powder down the shaft, corked it, and then back weighted it with 12g. Both these weights were arbitrary and really just a starting point knowing I could adjust them as needed. I then labeled the BP on each iron in a straight line and will adjust the weights accordingly as the club's ascend and descend in length. I'm matching the BP's of my Dr and 3w to each other, and all three of my wedges (52, 56, and 60) to each other.

Fun stuff!
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Re: Driver vs driver

Postby Ded2Journey » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:47 pm

Stu--the ultimate tinkerer! I've learned much from your journey...
"People have always been telling me what I can't do. I guess I have wanted to show them. That's been one of my driving forces all my life." -Ben Hogan
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Re: Driver vs driver

Postby k2baloo » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:25 pm

Stu,
Keep us posted on those irons. I love the concept. By a straight line, are you measuring the bp from the grip or from the club head?
I've also found a higher balance point is fade biased and a low balance point draw biased.
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Re: Driver vs driver

Postby Stu Carlburger » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:10 pm

k2baloo wrote:Stu,
Keep us posted on those irons. I love the concept. By a straight line, are you measuring the bp from the grip or from the club head?
I've also found a higher balance point is fade biased and a low balance point draw biased.


I measure from the butt end of the club. By straight line I mean that if the clubs are lined up and the BP is marked (I use thinly sliced strips of blue masking tape) the BP's are straight across, rather than ascending from as the clubs increase in length -- which is what the BP's do if left unaltered.

I certainly will let you guys know how they come out.
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Re: Driver vs driver

Postby norcalvol » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:01 pm

Stu... when you say if the clubs are lined up... does that mean lined up so that the butt ends are all together, or the other way?

I was just looking at data on my main set of irons, and the BPs going from long to short irons decrease in length to BP (i.e., length from the butt end to the BP) by about 0.1 to 0.2 inch per club (except for the wedges which are heavied up quite a bit compared to the other clubs)... SWs are D4 to D7 (wedges E1 to E6).
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Re: Driver vs driver

Postby Stu Carlburger » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:20 pm

norcalvol wrote:Stu... when you say if the clubs are lined up... does that mean lined up so that the butt ends are all together, or the other way?

I was just looking at data on my main set of irons, and the BPs going from long to short irons decrease in length to BP (i.e., length from the butt end to the BP) by about 0.1 to 0.2 inch per club (except for the wedges which are heavied up quite a bit compared to the other clubs)... SWs are D4 to D7 (wedges E1 to E6).


NorCal,

By lined up I mean heads down grip against the wall/rack ... Like you were setting them out for display. You can see the shaft length ascend front short to long if you have them in order. With a straight line BP you actually don't need to set them in order, only that the hosels are aligned. I started in the middle with the 6i, then adjust up or down from there.

So if you label the BP of you 6i you'll have to add weight to the head of your2, 3, 4, and 5 irons (assuming their relative head weights are properly set), and add weight to the butt for the 7, 8, 9, and PW. Personally, I like the feel of a well balanced club and thus I backweight all the clubs. So, given the 6i had 12g of backweighting I'll be progressively taking away backweight as the club lengthens and effectively moving that weight (and perhaps more) down to the head, and adding backweight to the short irons.
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Re: Driver vs driver

Postby norcalvol » Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:13 pm

Got it, Stu. Thanks.

Now that I understand it, how does the SW vary per club throughout the set? Wondering if it results in a slight progressive lessening of the SW from long to short irons throughout the set.
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Re: Driver vs driver

Postby Stu Carlburger » Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:34 pm

I dunno, to be honest. I don't have a swingweight scale, and I've never had it as a criteria of my clubs. I felt vindicated in abandoning SW when I read Lag's discussion of SW and how, in his opinion, it can be ignored as deadweight is more important.
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Re: Driver vs driver

Postby norcalvol » Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:55 pm

Right.

BTW, you don't need a swingweight scale (I don't have one)...

Swing Weight = ([DW * (BP-14)] * 0.034274) - 143.5... then that divided by 1.75

Deadweight is in grams, Balance Point is inches from the butt end.

A result of 45.0 would be D5 (the "4" is the letter and the "5" is the increment); a result of 55.0 would be E5, and so on.
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