Driver vs driver

Re: Driver vs driver

Postby HelterSkelter » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:37 am

It's very easy to over accelerate with the modern driver. You really have to take it easy down to the ball.

The high right shot is always lurking with it for me. I have to really concentrate on getting to the ball before applying the power. You can block the persimmon of course, but no where near as high or as right.

My scores are pretty similar with persimmon or modern driver, but that's generally playing off tees of 6200-6300. So not all that long. It might help more on a longer courses maybe.
User avatar
HelterSkelter
 
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 6:47 am

Re: Driver vs driver

Postby norcalvol » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:49 am

Experiment by applying lead tape on the bottom of the modern driver.
It can help quite a bit.
Accelerate forever!
User avatar
norcalvol
 
Posts: 490
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:01 pm
Location: Bay Area, California

Re: Driver vs driver

Postby Stu Carlburger » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:55 pm

I'll add my $.02 as I think I've found a bit of a happy medium between the feather lite modern drivers and persimmon drivers -- which to me don't feel like they interact with the modern golf ball very well.

A bit after I started with Bradley I got a TM SLDR 430 9* which I have set at -1.5* so it's playing at 7.5*. I had my club guy put the coupling sleeve on an X100 tipped 1/4" with a 10g tungsten plug inserted into the tip of the shaft. The overall length is 43.5", I added 12g of lead tape under the grip (10" cut into 4 pieces), the dead weight is 14.2 oz, and the balance point is @ 30 and 5/8" (70%) as measured from the butt. For a while I had no backweighting and had that same 12g on the back-center of the head, but after a bit of experimenting I found that by moving that weight up to grip (and thus bringing the balance point up toward the butt) I was able to bring the ball flight down and gain a bit more distance as the flight was a bit too high and floaty/spinny for my taste.

I'm not hitting it 330 yards, but I've been very consistently hitting it 285-290 with a Srixon ZStar XV, but most importantly, I'm hitting it straight and with command. I played yesterday and only missed one fairway, and it was just a step into the first cut on the "proper side" of the fairway to open up the green and attack the pin. As an aside, I hit a 6i from the first cut and hit the actual flag as it stood out straight with a slight breeze.

I also have an older Titleist 983e 8.5* (one of my favorite driver heads as I think it is a nice blend of smaller old and larger new) that I had built to the same specs -- 43.5" 1/4 tipped X100, 10g tungsten plug in the tip -- but this one has 4 10" strips of lead tape under the grip to bring the total backweighting to 48g! This beast weighs in at just under 16oz and its balance point is @ 28 and 1/8" (64.6%). With so much backweighting, I usually only use this driver in very windy conditions and/or on very dry hard courses -- which, given all the rain we've had in TX of late, aren't as common as they were.

When I pick up a friend's new driver it feels ridiculously light and way too long. Conversely, they'll ask how I can swing something so heavy and short. But, when I'm keeping up with them, or even pumping it by them, they don't tend to say too much. I have no doubt that a lot of this (new found) driving ability is due to greatly improved technique, but I also feel that moving to a shorter and significantly heavier driver has helped a great deal as well.
Stu Carlburger
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:35 pm

Re: Driver vs driver

Postby nfbandon » Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:29 am

I picked up a modern driver in the spring, and play it maybe half the time. My experience is a bit different. I find it very easy to hit when I have been hitting my persimmon regularly. It is only when I haven't hit the persimmon in a few weeks that I start having significant issues with the modern driver. When going back to persimmon having hit a few modern drivers on the range I will typically hit the first few shots to the right as I re acclimate to the heavier weight. I am not sure I understand trying to make a modern driver more like a persimmon. Just hit persimmon. The only reasons to play a modern driver are distance and less wear and tear on body. If you want to play a plus 7000 course you need the distance to play the course properly. As you get into your 50s you really have stiffness and soreness from a range session or 18 hole round with heavy gear.
nfbandon
 
Posts: 1072
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:03 pm

Re: Driver vs driver

Postby Stu Carlburger » Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:52 am

Res ipsa loquitur, counsellor!

As I said, the happy medium between the two. Persimmon, to me, is fun to hit for the precision required, and because of the weight of the club. I got my Am status back this year and played in a few Texas Am qualifiers/events, and I'm not going to sacrifice the distance I get with a modern driver. But, I don't like the feel of modern drivers -- they're too light and too long and often way too upright -- and I've felt this way before I ever heard of ABS.

As we all know, golf is a game in which ones score often depends not on how good you hit it when you hit it good, but how bad you hit it when you hit it bad. My experience with modern drivers is similar to Helter Skelter's -- big high right is always lurking, and that is unacceptable to me. Golf equipment is always a give and take between accuracy and distance -- especially the driver. I have no doubt I could get a new driver set up to optimize distance -- and probably will at some point -- and hit it 300+. But, as I said, I'm trying to find the best of both worlds -- solid distance without a loss of accuracy.

Additionally, as Lag notes in his published club specs, there is a big feel competent to the progressive nature of the weight and length of a set of clubs -- and I contend one could add balance point into that equation as well. There is a decided negative effect of swinging a light, long, upright club then dropping down to a heavy iron, etc. Back in the day I was a club fitter for Adams in Dallas and their data showed that the body can and does react to the last club swung. Meaning, when trying to build a consistently repeatable swing, continually changing club specs makes that goal even more elusive. Now, they were into frequency matching, and that's another discussion, but there is no doubt that length, weight, balance point, and lie play big roles.

So again, that brings me back to the happy medium. One has to start on one side of the set, right? If I have a long, light modern driver and try to match the rest of my set down to it I don't like the feel of the iron and wedges. But, if I work up from the irons and wedges the above driver specs are what come out. Perfect, to me!

Also, try some MSM and cold pressed hemp oil to knock down some of that inflammation your old body is experiencing. It's not age, per se, it's the accumulation of toxins that build up over time (the age component) that causes us all to feel more aches and pains than we did when we were younger.
Stu Carlburger
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:35 pm

Re: Driver vs driver

Postby nfbandon » Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:41 am

I have RA so that is the cause. I am surprised you hit the modified modern driver further than your persimmon. I am about 20 yards longer with a modern driver so a modified one would not help me much. If your distance disparity is greater, then it makes sense for you.
nfbandon
 
Posts: 1072
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:03 pm

Re: Driver vs driver

Postby k2baloo » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:19 am

Even if you build a modern driver like a persimmon it's going to go quite a bit further. The COR of persimmon is usually around .78 whereas modern drivers are around .83, which is the legal limit set by the USGA.
So even if you swing both the same speed a guy with 150 mph ball speed with persimmon is going to jump up to almost 160 mph ball speed with the modern stick. That's probably good for 15-20 yards right there. Now if you go full modern, longer and lighter in addition to the hotter face, the difference can be huge.
I've found modern drivers are 30+ yards longer for me than persimmon, but I spray them more and they feel terrible.

For each individual there's a variety of reasons why the distance difference could be less or more, but as a general rule, the hotter face alone makes a huge difference even if the club's are spec'ed out the same otherwise.
k2baloo
 
Posts: 979
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 5:43 pm

Re: Driver vs driver

Postby nfbandon » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:28 am

It is interesting because into the wind I am actually longer with persimmon because the flight is flatter. Down wind I am much longer with a modern driver. Again in still conditions it is abiut 20 yards.
nfbandon
 
Posts: 1072
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:03 pm

Re: Driver vs driver

Postby Stu Carlburger » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:40 am

I can hit an 2 iron/hybrid farther/as far as I can hit any persimmon driver I've ever hit. Maybe the one I have now isn't set up set up right as I've not done anything to it. I hit my friends TM M1 at Wolf Dancer (sweet course, BTW) and I didn't see much difference between it and mine except for launch angle. However, his felt horrible to me and I felt little to no control. He has a stock "stiff" shaft (whatever that means) at about 65g if I recall correctly. I have no doubt that if I went to a good club builder with a new head and had them build me something I would pick up some yardage, but distance has never been an issue for me, it's been accuracy.

For me, I think a large part of the issue is my bad swing tendency. I'm one who is "early left" and as I mentioned in another post about right eye dominance, I don't get all the way back. The heavy driver helps me keep my back to the target longer. A super light modern driver exasperates all my faults.
Stu Carlburger
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:35 pm

Re: Driver vs driver

Postby k2baloo » Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:33 am

nfbandon wrote:It is interesting because into the wind I am actually longer with persimmon because the flight is flatter. Down wind I am much longer with a modern driver. Again in still conditions it is abiut 20 yards.


Yeah, that's entirely possible. Depending on the fit of the clubs, the way you load and release the club, the conditions you play in, etc... it can vary how much difference there is in distance. Again, as a general rule, most people are going to see a bigger bump than what you are reporting assuming they swing as fast as you...
k2baloo
 
Posts: 979
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 5:43 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Equipment

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests