The Real Problem with Modern Drivers

The Real Problem with Modern Drivers

Postby k2baloo » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:20 am

Okay, so just to cover what we already know. Compared to Persimmons and early model metal drivers, modern drivers are:
Longer
Lighter
More upright
Bigger heads
Hotter faces (.83 COR vs Persimmon ~.78)
Hollow, obviously
Different sound and feel

All of these differences lead to a very difference ballflight and experience. For those of us that have moved to vintage gear and/or modern alternatives, what is it that bugs you most about the modern driver? Or said a different way, what design changes would it take for you to play an off-the-shelf modern driver? Also, feel free to explain why you do play a modern driver, if that is the case.

I have a few major issues with the modern drivers. I currently don't own one; the last one I owned was sold last summer and I don't have intentions of buying another one. My biggest issues with the modern driver are:

1. It feels like driving a semi-truck on a windy day. The head volume plus a lighter club just makes it feel difficult to maneuver through the air. Maybe I'm the other one that feels this way... But I want a club that cuts through the air and can turn and move in any direction that is needed. the new clubs are just too insanely bulky. My first request for a modern driver would be to cut the head volume in half, at least.

2. The things are not forgiving in the way I need. If you want to hit the ball reasonably far when you mis the center by an inch, than yeah, they are forgiving, but if you want to hit fairways, they're not forgiving at all. I spray modern drivers all over the place - it's almost like they are designed for you not to hit the center. I have many more center strikes with Persimmon than a modern driver.
MOI is not a great metric to judge forgiveness IMO. If you have a high MOI head, but a long, light shaft, and a COG far removed from the face, people are still going to spray the ball all over the planet. I'm one of those people. My accuracy with Persimmon has slowly improved. Last I played was in Houston with my brothers and father and I drove the ball beautifully. I had one miss about 10 yards off the fairway. Everything else was in the fairway or within two paces of it. I realize that isn't tour-caliber stuff or anything, but I'm prone to 30+ yard misses with the modern drivers.

3. They're way too light. I want the club to plow through the golf ball, not the other way around.

4. They ruin the golf courses I get to play. I play mostly courses that are <7200 yards, and that's from the tips. When I play a course with the modern driver, the ball goes too far. There's more variety in the game when I roll it back 20-30 yards. And many courses are now interesting even if I move up a tee-box or two.

Basically, what I'm saying is, if a modern driver were shorter, flatter, steel-shafted, heavier, and had a smaller, less-hot head and maybe a nice leather grip, then I would love to use it. Congrats to anyone that reads the whole thing :lol:
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Re: The Real Problem with Modern Drivers

Postby LesMurray » Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:20 pm

For me, the modern driver just isn't aesthetically pleasing. They look and sound like they were created in a laboratory. And feel - what feel.

A persimmon is a beauty to look at, especially when it has a nice grain and a finish to bring out that grain. And the shape is almost seductive. It feels nice in your hands. And the sound is quiet crack as opposed to an ear-splitting ping. My playing partners always comment how quiet my woods sound. And there is some heft to the club - you pick it up and you can feel the weight in your hands.

Performance-wise, except for the young flat-bellies I can keep up with most of the others in my club off the tee. Hard to say how far my driver goes because I rarely hit it but my 3-wood goes about 230 and my 4-wood about 210. On a good strike my driver can go about 250-270.

I haven't hit a modern driver in about 2 years. The last time I was hitting it I was going left a bit more. I just could not feel the head. And the sight line when addressing the ball was almost disconcerting with the huge head dwarfing the ball.
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Re: The Real Problem with Modern Drivers

Postby lagpressure » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:30 pm

Everything said above in the first two posts.

For me it's just such a huge disconnect from the history of the game. Deplorable really. Foolish, disrespectful, and obviously just an attempt
to dumb down the game while trying to recruit more interest in golf from people that found it too difficult. It was better when it just weeded out the weak by it's intrinsic nature.

There was nothing wrong with golf during the persimmon era. Much more interesting, articulate, deeper skill sets and a much more beautiful aesthetic, feel, sound and community.

The USGA has completely failed the game and unfortunately the PGA TOUR followed them right down the wormhole.

Can I be more complimentary? :roll:
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Re: The Real Problem with Modern Drivers

Postby Stu Carlburger » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:51 am

The sad irony is USGA and R&A installed themselves as stewards of the game, and then when the first real change came to the technology of the game, they failed miserable and caved to the club manufacturers. They very easily could have draw a bright line on materials and sizes, yet they've let themselves be bullied. They keep up their arrogant pretenses, but they're not really fooling anyone.
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Re: The Real Problem with Modern Drivers

Postby Anthony » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:32 am

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/mornin ... ersimmons/

Here you have it...supposed golf pros hitting persimmon in this comical tidbit. This is the show people learn how to hone their swings...haha...
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Re: The Real Problem with Modern Drivers

Postby Ded2Journey » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:56 am

For those of you that haven't tried the new Callaway Epic driver, I highly recommend it. It is the closest thing to a persimmon I've felt in modern gear.

Personally, my biggest issue was "feel" of the club face in the space behind and around me in the modern driver. They were so light and upright that ABS technique couldn't hold up because you lost the club face through transition and strike/beyond. Callaway has somehow (not that I think they were trying to) managed to give that back to the epic. It's a solid modern driver for those of you looking to try something modern.

As with all things in life, we went too far to the extreme--and now it appears it is time to cycle back. The quality of modern clubs released in the last year has been very impressive (Apex & Apex Pro Irons, Titleist MB blades, Mizuno T7 wedges, Titleist 917 Driver, Cobra fairway woods, counter balanced putters, advances in super stroke ergonomic/biomechanical designs, improvements in grip materials (I don't wear a glove), Heavier modern shafts (80+ grams on drivers now) with better kick profiles for hitters (which leads to better feels and techniques).

I will say that the EPIC lie angles are still too upright, but the feels, looks and responsiveness to a hitters protocol is by far the best I've seen in years. I'm curious if we see improvements in accuracy over the next few months on the PGA Tour--I believe some of the manufacturers have turned a corner.

My guess is that Golf will return to the health it had in the Mid 90's and stabilize there until another Tiger show's up. Thus, I have hope that with Nike dropping out of the club making business, we will see superior product lines that are not just about technology and hooking the hacker with gimmicks. Hopefully, we'll see less releases or at least staggered releases of new equipment as well.

My $.02 as always...GO TRY THE EPIC!!!
"People have always been telling me what I can't do. I guess I have wanted to show them. That's been one of my driving forces all my life." -Ben Hogan
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Re: The Real Problem with Modern Drivers

Postby Wknhacker » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:08 am

Did you hit the regular Epic or the Epic Sub Zero?

I've seen some very favourable reviews of the Sub Zero model on YouTube since it came out. But the prices of these drivers ($660 Canadian plus 13% tax) is just ridiculous.

"I have a tip that can take five strokes off anyone's golf game: it's called an eraser." - Arnold Palmer
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Re: The Real Problem with Modern Drivers

Postby Ded2Journey » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:00 pm

Wknhacker wrote:Did you hit the regular Epic or the Epic Sub Zero?

I've seen some very favourable reviews of the Sub Zero model on YouTube since it came out. But the prices of these drivers ($660 Canadian plus 13% tax) is just ridiculous.



Definitely the sub zero, head and shoulders above. I highly recommend the 80gram Speeder X-Stiff shaft. I went with the Rogue 70g 3.1 X Stiff, got better spin numbers, but lost a tiny bit of feel--and no $260 uncharge. Get some additional head weights too. Very cool working with this club, TONS of feedback during fitting adjustments. The placement of the weights really helps the clubhead and shaft respond together. Maybe I've been bitten by the technology zombie, but I am absolutely killing mine--consistently, finally...
"People have always been telling me what I can't do. I guess I have wanted to show them. That's been one of my driving forces all my life." -Ben Hogan
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Re: The Real Problem with Modern Drivers

Postby Wknhacker » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:02 am

Congrats on the new purchase. I'll wait for them to release the Sub Zero 2 in six months time and pick up the current model for a quarter of the current retail price. :lol:

I've been using the same titanium driver for 5 years now. It's a Titleist 910 D3 with a 17 gram weight and a 72 gram stock Diamana stiff flex shaft. I've yet to find a modern driver which matches it for feel. Maybe the Sub Zero will?
"I have a tip that can take five strokes off anyone's golf game: it's called an eraser." - Arnold Palmer
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Re: The Real Problem with Modern Drivers

Postby Ded2Journey » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:48 pm

Wknhacker wrote:Congrats on the new purchase. I'll wait for them to release the Sub Zero 2 in six months time and pick up the current model for a quarter of the current retail price. :lol:

I've been using the same titanium driver for 5 years now. It's a Titleist 910 D3 with a 17 gram weight and a 72 gram stock Diamana stiff flex shaft. I've yet to find a modern driver which matches it for feel. Maybe the Sub Zero will?


Best of luck. I'm guessing this one will be around for a while...
"People have always been telling me what I can't do. I guess I have wanted to show them. That's been one of my driving forces all my life." -Ben Hogan
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