Augusta National and The Masters

Re: Augusta National and The Masters

Postby lagpressure » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:23 am

k2baloo wrote:
lagpressure wrote:With the ball going 15% farther, the course needs to be 8050 yards to assure that the players are hitting the approximately same approach shots into the greens regarding the loft of the irons or woods and most importantly the OVERLOOKED element of TRAJECTORY.


On the flip side, the same argument would dictate that greens and fairways should be 15% bigger to give players a chance to hit them given how far the ball goes.
However, the greens are the same as far as I am aware, and they actually have tightened up many of the landing areas.... It's absolutely just apples to oranges IMO.


I would agree with this if the course was 8000 yards. But the ball is going 15% farther so it's playing much shorter than it used to relatively speaking. They used to hit long irons into 10 and 11 all the time. It wasn't uncommon to see a player coming into 10 with a 3 iron if they didn't draw the ball enough off the tee to catch the slope. The average player was hitting 3 or 4 iron into 11.... with the longer hitters coming in with 5 or 6 irons. These are very difficult holes to be coming into the green with a skipping low trajectory long iron approach struck off a downhill lie. Guys hitting 8 irons or even wedges now defeats the purpose and intention of the hole.

You never used to see guys fly the right bunker on #1. Standard fair now. Now they just swing as hard as they can and I've seen modern players hitting wedges in from the right rough or even the trees. There is no articulation to the hole anymore.

The landing areas have all changed. The designers went to great effort to consider the slope and angles of the the fairways and match the greens shapes to accommodate or not accommodate. Then of course the pin placement discretion.

Why change all this stuff? Bored? Ignorant? Pander to the USGA? I don't know, but please stop with all the traditional rhetoric.

The fact is, there are a lot more odd ball winners now since the changes. The Masters used to be the event that was rarely won by an average tour player. It was usually won by Hall of Fame caliber players. Why? because you really needed that level of skill set to win the event. It wasn't just bombing the ball and having a hot week with the short irons and putter.

Ultimately what made The Masters unique was it's unique skill set that really did crown truly exceptional players year after year. No other event saw such a strong list of champions nearly void of any average tour players winning the event. In over 6 decades from it's inception, there were only a few winners who might have been considered fluke or surprise winners. What I mean is The Masters rarely crowned "average" tour players with a green jacket.

Tommy Aaron, Larry Mize,
and Claude Harmon .... fluke winners at first glance...
But one cannot overlook the fact that all three of these guys where Georgia boys, and that is a huge factor in their favor. Home field advantage etc. So given that home field advantage, only Coody in 71 would raise an eyebrow as a Masters Champion in the six decades before they changed the equipment and the golf course. But in Coody's defense, he was always considered one of the games best iron players alongside Knudson in that era.

If we look at the event now, it feels much more like an "anyone can win" event than ever before. Much like any typical tour event on a wide open track with perfect greens. Since the changes we've seen more suspicious winners. The reason for this is that the current set up of the course matched with the modern gear isn't necessitating the deep shotmaking palate the game once required... and I think this is a terrible shame.
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Re: Augusta National and The Masters

Postby k2baloo » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:55 am

Not sure what Master's you are watching... 11 plays very long (505 yards) and very few can carry the right bunker on #1. I'm pretty sure it's over a 300 yard carry to do that...
Guys are hitting long irons/hybrids/woods into 11 today. Lots of holes do play very short now (13 and 15 stand out as the big ones).

I am all for rolling back the gear so the ball doesn't go so far. And I like playing vintage gear, but I think your attitude turns off a ton of people that would otherwise be interested in what you have to say. The fact that your PR skills have little to no improvement in the many years you have had an online presence is disappointing.

Also, if you are going to make an argument, you should back it up with actual fact. You claim the tournament is now won by average tour pros?
Here are the winners since 2000:
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All of these guys are very good players - proven winners at other courses. Maybe Bubba winning rubs people the wrong way because of the style he did it, but he has won a bunch of other places so it's definitely not a fluke. Mike Weir is the only name on the whole list that stands out to me as not being a terrific player.
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Re: Augusta National and The Masters

Postby k2baloo » Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:16 pm

On a positive note, Larry Mize has an outside shot to make the cut.
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Re: Augusta National and The Masters

Postby k2baloo » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:37 pm

I was hoping Tom Watson would make that bomb of a putt on 18.
Both he and Ian Woosnam are saying good bye this year
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Re: Augusta National and The Masters

Postby lagpressure » Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:25 pm

I'm only ranting once a year now... during Master's week.

I agree, with the unusual winds, some of the holes are playing as they should... like 15. I saw Rory hit a fairway metal into the green which is correct for that hole, however, without the wind, he probably hits a short iron in. The course shouldn't have to rely upon a particular wind condition for the players to have to pull a longer iron or a traditional club. It's just all the traditional rhetoric that is so out of place. Champions dinners, Butler cabin, amateurs competing etc... that's all nice, but what about the golf course and the gear? Six decades of very little change, then huge changes to pander to the USGA or pressure from the corporate monsters who have manipulated the game. It is what it is, but I wish they would stop with all the traditional nonsense.

I disagree that the list of players from the last 15 years is collectively the caliber of the previous decades. Weir, Immelman, Schwarztel and certainly Bubba doesn't win a Masters in the balata ball era.
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Re: Augusta National and The Masters

Postby lagpressure » Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:45 pm

I spoke with Al Barkow today, and he agreed with what I am saying. He's 84 this year. He's been covering Augusta going on 6 decades. He agreed that Coody was the only player to win The Masters that really was a bit of a shock in the balata era...

Now you have an amateur contending that cuts all his shafts the length of a 6 iron. Go try to do that back in the persimmon era when you had to actually hit long irons. Like to see him hit a 2 iron with a 6 iron shaft in it. Good luck with that.
I will give him credit for thinking outside the box and making up that set. Since players don't have to hit long irons anymore, it makes good sense. I'm actually going to root for him. I don't blame the players, I blame the custodians of the game for making so many big mistakes that have left golf in the state that it is today.
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Re: Augusta National and The Masters

Postby LesMurray » Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:55 pm

lagpressure wrote:I spoke with Al Barkow today, and he agreed with what I am saying. He's 84 this year. He's been covering Augusta going on 6 decades. He agreed that Coody was the only player to win The Masters that really was a bit of a shock in the balata era...

Now you have an amateur contending that cuts all his shafts the length of a 6 iron. Go try to do that back in the persimmon era when you had to actually hit long irons. Like to see him hit a 2 iron with a 6 iron shaft in it. Good luck with that.
I will give him credit for thinking outside the box and making up that set. Since players don't have to hit long irons anymore, it makes good sense. I'm actually going to root for him. I don't blame the players, I blame the custodians of the game for making so many big mistakes that have left golf in the state that it is today.


Speaking of Dechambeau - what do you think of his play? He is supposed to be a TGM disciple and a single planer.
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Re: Augusta National and The Masters

Postby Richie3Jack » Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:59 pm

lagpressure wrote:Now you have an amateur contending that cuts all his shafts the length of a 6 iron. Go try to do that back in the persimmon era when you had to actually hit long irons. Like to see him hit a 2 iron with a 6 iron shaft in it. Good luck with that.


He hits a 3-iron with a 6-iron shaft in it. I don't think it would be out of the realm for him to hit a 2-iron with a 6-iron shaft.

I watched him live at Bay Hill and his iron play is a strength of his game. Very accurate and great distance control. It's his driving that's not always on.




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Re: Augusta National and The Masters

Postby Ded2Journey » Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:39 pm

His use of gravity is alluring...
"People have always been telling me what I can't do. I guess I have wanted to show them. That's been one of my driving forces all my life." -Ben Hogan
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Re: Augusta National and The Masters

Postby lagpressure » Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:18 pm

Did Langer really say that he hit 3 wood into #2 and Jason Day hit 7 iron in?
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